S4E9 of Tatreez Talk: The Team Messy Back Manifesto with Tala and Joann Totah
APPLE PODCASTS | SPOTIFY | AMAZON MUSIC
If you’ve ever felt intimidated by the “rules” of tatreez—worried your stitches aren’t perfect or your thread backs are too messy—this episode is your permission slip to let all that go. In this conversation, we sit down with cousins Joann and Tala Totah, Bay Area-based artists and beloved members of our local tatreez circles. Together, they’ve championed the Team Messy Back manifesto—a joyful rejection of perfectionism that makes space for creativity, connection, and deep personal healing through embroidery.
Joann actually got her start with tatreez by taking my beginner course, which (🥁 drumroll 🥁) is now officially available for free on YouTube! So if you’ve been meaning to begin your tatreez journey but didn’t know where to start, this is your sign.
Scroll down for the full show notes and get ready to fall in love with the Totah cousins, their family photo-stitching project, and their reminder that beauty isn’t always neat—and that’s the point.
Episode Shownotes
TALA AND JOANN TOTAH ARE TWO BAY AREA-BASED PALESTINIAN ARTISTS WHO EMBRACE THE IMPERFECT, JOYFUL, AND REBELLIOUS PRACTICE OF EMBROIDERY THROUGH THEIR BELOVED TEAM MESSY BACK MANIFESTO (@tatreezwithtala; @joanndotcom). With humor and heart, they share the story of their family roots in Ramallah, Ramleh, and Taybeh, reflecting on how diaspora, displacement, and devotion to culture shaped their identities and creative work. Tala and Joann embody what it means to stitch without shame, inviting others to find freedom in process over perfection.
Their approach to tatreez is refreshingly accessible and full of personality. Whether teaching each other new stitches or laughing through mistakes, the Totah cousins use their practice to deepen their connection not only to Palestine but also to each other. A standout moment in the episode is their powerful family archive project: layering tatreez directly onto old family photographs. This act turns static images into living, breathing works of memory—where past and present meet through thread.
More than just embroidery, their work is a radical reclaiming of narrative, aesthetics, and belonging. Tala and Joann remind us that the backs of our embroidery—messy, tangled, and full of life—are just as important as the fronts. Through their stories, listeners are invited to imagine what it means to make art that is unpolished, deeply personal, and unapologetically rooted in Palestinian love and legacy.
You’ll hear about:
>> 0:48: Tala and Joann’s connection to Palestine
>> 4:26: Where tatreez came into their lives
>> 11:52: How to make a tatreez practice work for you without pressure
>> 16:00: How Tala and Joann found each other (through tatreez)
>> 28:46: Reflections on practicing tatreez in the diaspora and back in Palestine
>> 34:46: The epic Totah family tatreez archive project
>> 44:08: What’s next for their tatreez journeys
>> 50:28: Major life lessons from tatreez
Rate, Review, & Follow on Your Favorite Podcast Platform
“I love Palestinian embroidery and Tatreez Talk.” <– If that sounds like you, please consider rating and reviewing our show! This helps us elevate the vibrant narratives of Palestinian embroiderers and support more tatreez-ers — just like you — in learning more about tatreez and connecting with each other. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and others -- just scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then be sure to let us know what you loved most about the episode!
Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. We’re adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the feed and, if you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out. Follow now!
Links Mentioned
>> Lina’s Tatreez 101 course is now available on YouTube!
>> The Haleemah project on IG and on Tatreez Talk
Transcript
Lina: Hi stitchers! Welcome to Tatreez talk, where we share conversations about Palestinian embroidery. I'm Lina here with my co-host Amani, chatting with talented embroiders and artists sharing their stories, inspirations, and the cultural significance behind their work.
Amanne: On today's episode. We are chatting with Tara and Joanne Totahh, 2 Palestinian Tatreez artists and cousins who are part of my local bay area Tatreez community and my local Tetris sisters. Welcome to Tatreez talk, Tara and Joanne. I'm so excited to finally, have you guys here.
Joann: Thanks for having Team Totah.
Tala: Yeah, so exciting.
Tala: Excited.
Amanne: I'm a big fan of team, Totah.
Lina: I love it. I love it well to kick us off. We'd like to ask our guests to tell our listeners a little bit about you and your family's connection to Palestine, so maybe we can start off with Tala. And then Joanne.
Tala: Yeah. So both my parents are from Palestine. My mom is from Ramallah and some of the family is still in Ramallah, but a lot of them have scattered kinda everywhere.
Tala: And you'll hear more about that side from Joanne, and then my dad is also from Palestine. His family is in the Ramleh, which is near Yafa. So yeah, both both big Palestinian families.
Tala: Yeah.
Lina: Are you related to Amani? Have we figured that out.
Tala: We haven't. I don't think we are, though.
Amanne: Do you guys, do you guys have any Muslim cousins.
Tala: I don't think so. Unfortunately.
Joann: There are there actually are really we do.
Joann: Totahs. There are Muslim, Totahs, how we're related! But they they exist.
Joann: No, Ramla.
Tala: Yeah, her dad's side. We'll we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Yeah.
Lina: Maybe, Joanne, do you want to go next.
Joann: Well, my parents are both Palestinian. My father came here in 1952, so shortly after the Nakba, which today marks the 77th anniversary of the ongoing Nakba. So my dad's from Ramallah. Same place for
Joann: Tala's mom is from, and my mom's family is from Tayba. It is one of the last remaining Christian villages a little bit, I mean, let's say, 15 kilometers outside of Ramallah. People might know it because of the beer that comes out of there. Tayba beer, taste the revolution. I still have family in Tayba, and you know other parts of the west bank.
Joann: so I have been blessed with the opportunity to go back home several times in my life.
Joann: Yeah, and it's a very special place to
Joann: my heart, right? I think it's one of the 1st times I met a manny. I told her the 1st thing that we had in common was how she says she's aggressively Palestinian, and
Joann: yes, someone asks. I always say I'm Hella Palestinian, right? Like half Bay Area, half Palestinian, half.
Amanne: No.
Joann: Hella, in there.
Lina: Yeah, you bay area. Palestinians are. Next level.
Joann: We are. Thank.
Joann: Just so.
Amanne: So much. We really appreciate that we try. We try.
Lina: I love it. Okay, wait one quick. Also. Relationship question, are we related to Pam.
Joann: So I have sent Pam, the Totah family tree. I am obsessed with their family lineage and genealogy, and I asked her to like identify which part on the tree right? So like Tal and I are like on the right hand side she's on like the upper left hand side, so.
Tala: Well, that family is huge.
Tala: It is.
Lina: Didn't see.
Tala: There are a lot of us.
Amanne: Yeah, yeah. And there's a big contingency here in the bay area. Because even I, growing up like, my mom had friends in the Totah family. And yeah, there's a lot of y'all.
Amanne: So like we don't know each other because there's so many.
Joann: Which is why it was a gift that Tala and I found out found each other.
Amanne: As.
Joann: And cause, you know, when people are like, you know, Totah, are you related to so and so? And I'm like me. No, no right, but like.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joann: This one connection was easy to put together.
Amanne: Totally. Yeah, okay, we're going to have to talk about that. And that like kind of leads us in perfectly like we. You know, we talk about like your family's connection to Philistine. But of course, like, where does Tetris come into your life? Obviously it brought you 2 together, which I'm excited for you guys to share that story. But kind of where was that start? And so, Joanne, let's start with you where Tetris kind of came into your life, and where Tetris Journey took you.
Joann: I love this question. So my mom was a Tetris expert. I did not have the opportunity to learn from her. She died when I was young, but I have her stuff around the house right, and you know I've always seen it more so as like you know what's covering your coffee table or under, like Teta's TV. I always saw it in those capacities until I started purchasing pieces back home. But so my mom was a Tetris expert.
Joann: I went back home in 2016 2017, and in true, like Palestinian artwork, I was at an aunt's office, and I was like, Wow, that's a really beautiful piece. It was the 1st time that I saw the geometric patterns of Tetris, and it wasn't Romola red, right? It was like these beautiful hues of blue, and it just stood out to me, and she takes it off the wall, and she hands it to me right like you can never.
Joann: you know, say something's nice to an auntie, because she's immediately going to gift it to you. So I have that that I'm looking at every single day, and that definitely influenced me because my brain really loves geometry right? Just how I see things. I love patterns. I love geometry. So between having my mom's DNA, and once I picked up the needle I couldn't put it down that gift from my mom's cousin.
Joann: I was also gifted a beautiful thobe like.
Amanne: So.
Joann: Years ago from a really good friend. But again I didn't really understand what went into it right like sure handmade gift beautiful. But again when I started being like, Pasha's tent and started being able to pick out different motifs. I'm like, Wow, this is incredible, you know. I think this was also at the same time Lena was working on her thobe. So like I started seeing like what that process would look like again, just building towards the inspiration.
Joann: I you know I
Joann: I have a museum of Palestine in my house and in my museum I have different forms, right? I have, like a Handala, or like the map of Palestine, or like olive trees, but never like the geometric patterns again. So like once I saw the patterns, that's what drew me to it. So it's always been in my life. But when it became a part of my actual existence, and when my hobby became my personality was courtesy of Lena
Joann: after October 7th she offered a Tetris 101 class that supported children or mental health for kids in Gaza, and it was more of the okay. This is doing something for me and doing something for them. And as a trained behavior analyst, I knew I had to stop scrolling, you know, just like everyone else spending 15 h online.
Joann: I knew I had to do something incompatible with my hands, and I had to change my behavior, and I had to do something else. So I picked up that needle in November of 2023, and I haven't put it down since. So thank you, Lena, for helping a hobby or an incompatible behavior become a huge part of my life and my personality, and
Joann: and an opportunity to express so much of what this art form means to us.
Lina: Yeah, no, you did all of it. And I. It's just the beauty of Thank you for taking the course and actually following it. There are so many people who pay for these things, and they don't actually take the course. So.
Joann: No, no, the second you release updates. I'm like signing in on them. I all of it.
Lina: I love it. I love it.
Lina: Tyler. How about you?
Tala: Yeah, I was reflecting on your answer to Joanne. I also just grew up with tatreez everywhere, like, it's it's all over the house. My mom is also like a huge expert. So her work is just all over the house. It's framed. I just like grew up seeing it, and it was very normal to me.
Tala: but and I grew up going to Palestine in the summers when I was a little kid, and my grandma was still alive, and my grandma is also huge in tatreez, so like her house in Ramallah is full of tatreez stuff. So yeah, so growing up, it was just always like a constant.
Tala: and I didn't actually think about doing it myself until after college, you know, when you're young and dumb, and you're just like doing your thing. But once college ended, you know you always think about like, what is life? What am I doing with myself? Who am I? So that's when I started being like I should do tatreez.
Tala: And so I was like, my mom's an expert. She's great. So I tried to learn from her, and it went so badly.
Amanne: Common common thing. By the way, like I feel like many people have said, like, Try to learn from my grandma, try to learn from my plateau, and it was. It was intense.
Tala: Was intense. Yes, I mean she's so good.
Amanne: Yeah.
Tala: So when I'm doing it with her, she's like that's wrong, that's wrong or no, that's not right, or she, I do something, and she flip the back and be like, what is this like? This isn't? And I'm like, Mom, I'm trying.
Lina: Amani don't become that person.
Amanne: No, Tala has taken my class before. I'm not like that. I'm not like that. I always tell people it's for me, not for you, for me.
Tala: Yeah, yeah. But I think it is such a cultural like pressure in tats. Even if you say it's for you like that. That's what we are told should be, and so I gave up, and I didn't do it for probably like a year. And then I actually was. I had a roommate who was Palestinian, and she was doing tatreez
Tala: and her backs. Weren't that good? And I was like, Oh, oh, okay. So then I picked it up again, and this time I just like self-taught because I like. I already knew what it was. You know my mom had already gave me the basics.
Tala: So I was like, Okay, this time I'm going to start doing it. But then, just not tell anyone. So nobody looks at it, you know I'm just doing it on my own. And then I just became addicted, and I loved it, and I felt free from like having a clean back or having it to be perfect because it was just for me. And that's when I really got to like
Tala: experience studies, I think, and experience the like magic of it when it was like, Yeah, freed from these like norms and and rules.
Amanne: Yeah, no, I hear you and I know we. We always talk about it at our circles, and we we joke about clean back, messy back, and all of that. But I'd love to, because I know this is something that other people
Amanne: stress out about a little bit and like worry about because there is like, especially this old school mentality of like this is how it must be done. I'd love for you to kind of talk a little bit more about how you
Amanne: got comfortable with kind of like releasing that pressure on yourself, because I do feel like a lot of Palestinians, especially those of us in diaspora. We tend to put the most pressure on ourselves about being the quote unquote, perfect Palestinians. So I'd love for you to kind of share a little bit more with the listeners about your journey.
Tala: Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of it was like actually stepping.
Tala: I mean, this is kind of counterintuitive, but kind of stepping out of the community a little bit. And being like, Okay, this practice is for me. And so how can I connect to this practice? And that was my way of being like, okay, I don't actually care what the back looks like like for me. Even if the back is messy, it is beautiful, and it is like
Tala: handmade. It's what I've done, and it's my way to connect to Palestine and and my my ancestors.
Tala: And so I think that was like my 1st foyer into just being okay with a messy back. But then, as I kept practicing
Tala: like, my stuff looks great, you know, and no one looks at the back unless you flip it and like, how dare you touch my work?
Amanne: Yes, boundaries.
Tala: And I just started getting like more and more like fierce about team messy back like I think I when I 1st started it was less like, I think this is great, and it's more like there was a little shame around it. But I'm just gonna keep doing it because I like it, and I'm having fun. But the more I did it, I was like, No, actually, this is a thing that shouldn't be like we shouldn't be ashamed about having a messy back like
Tala: having a clean back can be a barrier, and and I know it's the way our relatives did it. I mean, my mom has made that very well known. I understand I've seen all my relatives. I know it's the ancestral historical way, and everybody loves to talk about how they're, you know, preserving thread which I mean.
Tala: you know, you guys, I really.
Joann: 66 cents.
Tala: We can waste your life.
Tala: And do you really not.
Amanne: How.
Tala: The resources for thread like right now in diaspora like
Tala: I don't know. So I just.
Amanne: Better thread. Shame them, girl.
Tala: Yes, I don't know. I think it's just like there are other ways for me to emulate and carry on the traditions of my mom and my theatre, and if the way for me to do that is by having a messy back, then, Mashallah, that's my back. And I just yeah, I think what you were saying, too, Amani, like it's
Tala: it's this, like this need for perfectionism. And to be exactly the way my mom and my theatre are. And and I'm not right. I grew up in diaspora. I have a completely different life. I have Totahlly different privileges. And and that's okay. I can take what I have and be creative in that way and do things a little differently.
Tala: And then, okay, my last pitch about messy back.
Amanne: That if I wanted something perfect, like pristine and perfect.
Tala: Then just get a machine made thing, because handmade, like part of the beauty of it being handmade, is that there are going to be mistakes. And so, yeah, I'm just. I'm proud of being team messy back. I know this is going to be controversial in the community. But you know, I think us chaotic, messy stitchers deserve to be in the community too. So.
Lina: Yes, and honestly.
Amanne: I don't think it's gonna be as controversial as you think. I think there's a lot more team.
Joann: I think you might be actually helping people by sharing that manifesto.
Amanne: Yes.
Tala: Thank you. It.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joann: Manifesto. You are right.
Amanne: There we go. I love it. You're on a mission. I'm not that about it.
Lina: Okay, wait. So it's been alluded to before. But I want to hear the story of how you guys connected.
Lina: Well, team messy back is part of it.
Lina: Yes. Okay.
Tala: So, Joanne, you.
Joann: Okay.
Tala: Alright for it.
Lina: So the messy back manifesto is what brought us together. Down somewhere.
Amanne: No.
Joann: No, no.
Amanne: I think it should be.
Joann: Timeline. I well oh, the manifest.
Lina: Yeah.
Amanne: Yeah, I think I think we might need to create one.
Tala: Share with us.
Amanne: Believe it's like it's in.
Joann: Has it in her phone.
Tala: I have it in my notes, app.
Joann: So like, I said. So I started in November of 2023, and then 2024. My year, my word of the year was community. I needed to find a different, better community. I am truly an introvert, and I don't generally go to things or community events. But so I went January of 2024 to one of the 1st 3 circles
Joann: or my 1st Tetris circle in Berkeley. The way that the tables were set up then it was like you shaped. So I had my back to Tala, and Tala was there. I had my back to Tala, but I was overhearing what she was saying, speaking to another Tetris, or and just talking about a messy back. And it's okay if it's messy. And this was the 1st time I ever heard anyone say this, but again I wasn't
Joann: in her conversation. I wasn't even looking at her, but I left like that was like the best therapeutic hour, not just because of the Tetris, but like someone randomly gave me permission to not have a clean back. So I have this mantra in my head since January I continue to go to a couple of our other Tetris circles, but it wasn't until May of last year so happy. One year anniversary Cuzzo.
Tala: Oh!
Joann: Where we were cleaning up like folding chairs, and I just turned around and I looked at her. And I was like, Are you the one that's like into the messy backs.
Joann: And she's like, yeah. And I was like, and I just let her know I was like, I don't think you know this, but, like I probably owe you $250 for an hour of free therapy, like just hearing you say that has changed my entire perspective. And sure my back's got cleaner, because I am truly Type A, and I want the perfection. But just knowing that it was okay in someone's brain. So when I asked her that you know, it was like, I don't know, maybe a 5,
Joann: 10 min conversation we were just cleaning up. But while I was looking at her face, I'm like she looks familiar.
Joann: She just she looks familiar. I've never seen her before. I'm good with names. I'm good with faces. I would have known if I would have met her before, but something stood out, and she just looked familiar. So I awkwardly went into our Whatsapp Text group.
Joann: and I DM'd her directly, and I was like, Hey, team, Messi, back.
Joann: are you a Totah by chance, and she's like, yes, I am. It's my mom's maiden name. And so from that point. So I'm really into family lineage. I'm really into family trees. I am trying to kind of recreate more of not just the tree, but family books for my sister's kids, so that they understand lineage. I think the more and more generations that are here, the more they're going to forget.
Joann: And I need to take my knowledge and put it down. So the second she's like, Yeah, I'm a Totah. But again, like we had just talked about, there's millions of them right?
Joann: So again, this was so this is May of last year. And then she's like, yeah, my mom is. And I was like, What's your mom's name? And she's like, you probably won't find her on the tree, because they only put the men on the tree, and I was like, well, the women are on their their offsprings just aren't on there right, because those children are no longer Totahs.
Joann: and so she's like, well, you'll probably just be better off finding my uncle Fouad, and the second, she said, fouad! I was like.
Joann: oh, this isn't. This isn't a far relationship. This is a close relationship. Fouad was one of my father's favorite cousins, and then I was like, Okay, wait, confirm who are your grandparents, and she said, Judius and Noor and I just stopped dead in my tracks. I was like, Oh, your grandfather and my grandfather are brothers
Joann: right, because again it was it's that close that I didn't even have to go. Reference the family tree. I knew when she said that.
Joann: and then I think it took like 2 or 3 other clarification questions, and I was like, Oh, you mean your mom, your grandmother's house in Ramallah, the home that I was just at when I was there in 2017. So I have been to her grandmother's house. I think one of the times I was there in 2,000. Her grandmother was alive, like, you know, it's this weird connection that we're in the same place at the same time, and we don't even know
Joann: that we are of the same kin, same family home right down to it. So I think I started sending her pictures of her grandmother's home. I'm like, is this the house you're talking about is this it? And she's like, yeah. So she went and she told her, Mom.
Joann: Tala, do you want to pick up from when you confirmed the story with your mom that we were closely.
Tala: Yeah, so my mom was so excited. She's like what? And so we ended up like, I just figured out all the connections. And my mom was like, Oh, I know Joanne's dad. I know Joanne's uncle. There's some, you know. Fun fun stories there about marriage proposals that didn't happen.
Tala: Oh, wait! We gotta talk about that next circle.
Tala: There you go. We'll see that for the circle.
Tala: Exactly. But yeah, my mom was so excited and Joanne had been sending me photos, and my mom has some old photos, but not that many. And so when I was showing her some of Joanne's old photos, she was just so thrilled to like see them.
Tala: And so we ended up all getting together. Joanne came over to my mom's house when I was there, and we went through old photos. And we were just like looking at things. And it actually, I mean, Joanne really spurred this
Tala: to like, actually write out the full family tree of like our line, and write out all the names and all the kids names, and I had never done this either. So there was a lot that I didn't know and it was really I still have it in my. I took a picture.
Joann: It's really.
Tala: Messy. I need to make it better messy back.
Tala: But it was really powerful that just like I feel like it connected me to so much more family that I had no idea even existed like I now know the name of my great grandmother. I know what she looks like. I have pictures now. And
Tala: it was. It was really like powerful to me, and just having that, you know that then spurred me to be like, Okay, well, now, tell me about my grandma's side of the family. Tell me about my dad's side, you know. Now I have like 4 really messy documents that I can reference. But it's yeah. I'm like, I can't believe. I never thought to do this before. Joanne.
Amanne: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so cool like, that's that's really powerful. How? Okay have you guys brought in? I think I already know. I know the answer for Joanne. But have you guys brought in any other family members any other Totahs into the tatreez cult? I mean community.
Joann: Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I mean, Tala always has a contingency at every circle she's got like her, her crew.
Joann: Yeah.
Joann: I have used it as a way. I mean, I say, this sassy to like coerce people like, if you want to hang out with me, you have to do right like in the lab, because this is what I do right like. You want to do it. So
Joann: I have gifted my sister massive like Tetris kits where I'm like. So I have this idea of. We will stitch the same thing and frame it, and we'll swap the gifts right, because it's a big gift right, but we'll do it for one another. So I gifted that to her a year ago. My cousin Remy. She is she's a big. Now she comes to the circles.
Joann: Her niece. I've gifted a tatreez kit to before, right where, like I have gifted this to multiple people, to you know one.
Joann: You share my obsession, but to hope that they have the same connection as well. Right? It's not, you know. I think, what I love the most about our communities. There's no gatekeeping, everyone sharing this and trying to share the love. Not being like this is my art. This is what I do so I've definitely have done this with, like some sisters and cousins. My aunt back home is just impressed with how much we do here, where she almost feels like it's a little bit dying back there right
Joann: versus. Here we are, just holding on to everything as traditionally as we can. And you know, she comments a couple of things she's like, no one's sitting around baking cackle goods like you. And I'm like, I mean, where else am I gonna get it like I don't have the opportunity. I have to go. I have to make it.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joann: But it's the same idea, right? Just like how we share food and want to bring. It's the same thing that I want to do with Tetris and Gift, and bring other family members into it. And I think that 3 circles also help right, you know, letting people know that it doesn't have to be a personal activity, right? You know, when we always teach like beginners like, you know, the thought that your string has to be the length of your width, and that's because women traditionally.
Amanne: Did it in circles, and you didn't want to be flinging your arm everywhere. And that's the original idea of it. So it's definitely been a good way to connect with people, and you know again, if you want to hang out with me, you better do this
Amanne: this.
Joann: And you know, it's really helped them also connect. And I like seeing that connection for other people, because not everyone's had the opportunity, like Tala and I, to go back home and really immerse ourselves in all things. Palestine. So to share this art and this gift with them is just another beautiful way outside of, you know, food which we always do.
Amanne: Yeah, I've also found that it's helped me connect with a lot of older relatives who I've maybe lost touch with, like one project that I was doing for a while that I finished now, because there's no more is my would give me their old pieces that were like half done that they just like abandoned, because either.
Tala: They got tired, or when they came from Palestine to hear, they just like never picked it up again. So I would take those old pieces and and finish them up for them, or they'd give me their pieces that were like fraying or got messed up, and so then I could fix it so. That has been really powerful, too, to like. Take.
Tala: take these like old, like these pieces that like never got finished or were ruined because of like the displacement and dispossession. And then, just like, bring it, bring it to completion. And so yeah, the one behind me, I know it's a podcast but anyway, you guys can see it.
Amanne: You'll you'll send us a picture. We'll post it on social.
Tala: I think.
Amanne: Really cool.
Tala: Okay.
Amanne: Like, I think it's a really cool concept. And I've seen other people do this where they've been able to get half finished from family members and complete it like, I mean, I can only imagine, like what that feels like emotionally, especially like.
Tala: You won't get it.
Joann: Every day, too.
Tala: Yeah. And okay, here's another picture, messy back. If you flip it, you know which part is mine, and which part of my house.
Joann: Send both sides of it right.
Amanne: Yeah, yeah.
Amanne: I only want pictures of the back of your work. No.
Joann: It's like before Tala and after tala right, we'll see that demarcation.
Tala: Yes, love it.
Lina: But is it actually that messy? I just I find it. I feel like, after all, this time. You probably have gotten really good.
Tala: It depends how much I like. I can be clean if I really try. But sometimes I don't really want to try.
Lina: Yeah.
Tala: I like just doing while like sitting on the couch and like being or like in circles. Honestly, I can't really focus that. Well, so like it's gonna be messy from a circle and.
Amanne: Yeah.
Tala: That's okay. I don't mind, you know.
Lina: Yeah, yeah.
Lina: Support. I'm part of. I want to join team messy back.
Joann: Yeah, fun.
Lina: Thank you. Imani. Bye.
Amanne: Okay, relax. Oh, my God! Why am I being attacked?
Amanne: I am actually supportive of team, messy back. I love my team messy back.
Tala: Supportive.
Amanne: Actually okay. So, Joanne, I want to go back to something that you said about your Khalto back home, because it's interesting. And, Lena, I don't know if you remember, when we were in Jordan last year, and we were talking to one of my aunts there. She was like kind of tripping out that we like were so into tatreez, and like we were going to all these places to see all this historic tatreez, and like so into it, and we were.
Amanne: and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that, like machine embroidery has become such the norm there. But
Amanne: I'm just curious like.
Amanne: I don't have you gone back to Philistine? Since you've been like really able to start stitching. No, right? Because it's.
Joann: Yeah, no, I haven't been back home since 2017.
Amanne: Okay. Okay.
Joann: But again, I think you know, when something is just, you know, visually like it's just Addy. There, right? It's just.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joann: Everywhere, around them.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joann: Versus for us. Right? We're like, you know, we go to like Palestine Day. We like see, like a nice headband that we don't have access to otherwise right versus, you know, having to create our own things to bring it to life. So it's not just wall hangings right like wearing it as jewelry, like
Joann: making, you know everyone in the Bay Area. Not everyone. But I've been inspired by several people that have, like their cute denim jackets, with like.
Amanne: Yeah. It's all.
Joann: Them right, you know, making it so that it is more visible. And it's not something that is so like, oh, I saw today's that's how it is back home. They're just saturated and it and it's also a dying art, because again, they're traveling 3 HA day to get to work. Who's sitting down doing so? I think the more that, like we bring it to the everyday. Not that we're ever, gonna you know.
Joann: normalize it in that way where we don't appreciate the beauty of it. But I think just because it's been so a part of their everyday versus for us. We have to bring it to life.
Amanne: Yeah.
Lina: I mean, I think there's also something to be said about the way it's been monetized over the last 77 plus years
Lina: and like this, like, I tell this story all the time. I'm not going to repeat it. But like I tell the story about how my dad finally realized the value of toll trees, and it was after seeing me do it so many times. And
Lina: it's because for him, and I think this is a common thought for a lot of Palestinians in our community. It's just like, Oh, it's just like this, something that you can buy from a refugee woman. And it's just like you're just buying it to empower her. You're not buying it for the actual art of. And I think there's something there, too, about that mentality that is shifting, and I don't necessarily think it's for everybody. But I do like I see it in my family, for example.
Lina: And when I started doing? Everyone was like, What are you doing like? Why are you making your own? Why are you going through that pain like, just go hire a to make it for you, and I'm like that defeats the whole purpose. The whole point is that you're doing it for yourself, and that you're designing it in a way that expresses your personality and
Lina: what you see as beautiful. So there is, I think, something to be said about like I don't know if it's a sigma or education about the practice which is changing a lot I feel like, especially in the last.
Lina: you know, 18 months especially, there's been a lot of people kind of really excited about trying it out for themselves, and
Lina: it took a genocide for us to get here. But I think there is something really powerful about us. Returning back to this concept of doing it for yourself, even if you know no one sees it. No one has to see your back. No one has to like. It's not meant for, you know, someone to judge. It's meant for you to just feel connected to Palestine and create something that's uniquely yours. And yeah, I don't know. That's just kind of you guys are making me reflect on that.
Tala: Yeah.
Joann: I mean, it's hard to sorry. Go ahead, Tala.
Tala: I was just gonna say, even for, like my.
Tala: I like recently visited one of my Khaltos who lives in Cyprus, and she has done so much.
Tala: and even like she had it sort of like tucked away and like in, you know, I think a lot of like people do who did tatreez back in the day like now they they just have it tucked away in their cabinets and their drawers. And I think when I visited her, because she knows I'm so excited about, and I wanted to talk about it and see everything. I feel like that, even for her. It was a moment where she's like, oh, like right, this is art like this is
Tala: the thing that like
Tala: is powerful and really beautiful that I made, and I can now share with you. Yeah. So I think, like even that, that like realization that this is art. And this is beauty like has been lost sometimes on people who even do it.
Lina: I'm in the.
Amanne: Yeah, very real. That's very beautiful. I love that. She was able to come through that realization through your eyes. And like the way you're viewing. And I think that also speaks to like the generational thing like you mentioned right before, like the fact that it's been something that's helped you connect with older generations of your family, older generations of Palestinians, and that is, it's like this universe language, whether you're in diaspora, whether you're in Philistine, whether you're in diaspora, in the Arab world, like
Amanne: whatever your experience is like, you have this connection like through, because it is like this
Amanne: universal language. And even as it continues to evolve where you know. Maybe Team messy back is who you are today as a Palestinian, and you know, like, as you said earlier, and I love how you said earlier thought that you mentioned like, you know, like I'm Palestinian diaspora like that's my story, like I have a little privilege so I could use a little extra thread like, you know, like, I know you're saying it in jest, but like it's also like
Amanne: true to the fact that again. You're like your story is evolving like, you know, it continues to evolve as a Palestinian. So I think it's really really cool that you've been able to use it, not just as a way to connect with cousins of your generation, but also with like your elders, which I think is really special.
Tala: Absolutely. And I think we talk a lot about like.
Tala: Yeah, I just think now I'm rambling, but like the cities like connects us like to our past. But it also connects us to like our present, like thinking about Joanne. But then, like also the like, the future like, How do we want the cities to work for us, moving forward, and doesn't always have to be the same.
Amanne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And okay, I think a little blend of the past, the present, and potentially the future. I know you guys both are kind of on this.
Amanne: The next step, if you will, or the current stage of your Tetris journeys on these photo Tetris projects that you guys are working on that are tied to your families, and I'm going to let you guys share the story. I know who has the Joanne. You have the archival images, right? Or I know both. You guys have some.
Joann: But I don't know. Maybe you want to start us off, Joanne, with kind of like what what the project is and how you guys have been working together on this and separately, too.
Joann: So I I don't know. Somehow, on the Internet, I found like this fast photo scanner, right? So it scans hundreds of photos an hour. So I was back home in 2016, and my aunt had one of those flatbed dinosaur things it took 2,000 hours right? So I got all of my mom's family photos when I was in Philistine 2016 2017. And I made like a photo album on Facebook, just to share with all of like the cousins. Again, we're in diaspora everywhere in the world, right?
Joann: But they were just beautiful black and white photos. But again, I'm like I need to know names, dates, everything. So I started this in 2016, fast forward to pandemic. I you know both of my parents have passed away. I have gotten all the things right from these grandparents, these parents, and I'm the holder of it. But not only the holder of this like this is stuff that I love right? I like, I said. I love family lineage. I love family
Joann: stories, but we don't know as much as we should know. So I've gone on a quest. So back to my fast scanner, I found this thing. I could scan 600 photos in an hour. So I have archived up to 20,000 photos of my family going back from 1930 Palestine to when digital photos became a thing in 2,000. So we're talking across 7 decades of digitizing photos.
Joann: putting metadata on them, you know, so that I can find them pretty easy as long as I know, a little bit of information.
Joann: And then I put them on Google photos. And I wanted my other, my one of my cousins and other people to be thrilled about this, but again, like no one's really as excited as I am. So
Joann: like, I said earlier, I really want, you know, the next generation, my sister's kids. I want them to have some sort of connection. So I wanted to put together books for both my mother's side of the family and my father's side of the family, which is how the shared side of the family, and, you know, put faces, names, dates, you know. Information like my great grandfather. Was this really cool Fallahi Farmer and his donkey that my grandfather inherited? His name was
Joann: half donkey, half Mercedes. Right like these really cool stories. I want them somewhere, and I want to share them. Right? So I learned from this really awesome tatreez artist Amanne, how to touch these photos.
Joann: And that was like game changer. Right? I'm not just going to scan these photos into this book I want to create. I'm going to these photos, and I'm going to make them pop out, and I'm going to make them stand out. And so I've been slowly working on this. But magically, while I've had this idea in my head and working on this. Tala has also been doing some for the for our shared family side that I'm like, wait, she can actually help me with my Toto book. She's doing some
Joann: photos on some shared family photos here, right? So she sent one recently, and it had my grandfather in it from when he was a child. I don't think I've ever seen my grandfather as a child, and so she shared this photo, and it was just, I mean so emotional, shared it with my brother. We're both like sitting there quietly in tears, being like look at Sido as a child like
Joann: this is a gift that she doesn't even know she's sharing right? So doing. tatreez photos has been just a ginormous game changer. Not only am I an archivist in some sort of ways. I want to add pizzazz to them. So again, slowly doing it, picking out the preferred photos, figuring out which ways. And again, Amani, you've been really helpful in a lot of circles, helping me conceptualize it right? Because again.
Joann: my brain works is not so much to design. But you've helped me in some ways to really conceptualize this. And then seeing the ones that Tala is working on has also inspired me to be like, Okay, I need to speed it up. I want to get to the tote side.
Amanne: I can.
Joann: Working on some of these photos. But this is, you know, going to be a lifelong project, right like I don't expect in my perfectionist ways that I'm going to get this done in 2.2 seconds. But I'm going to take time with it. And, like Tala said, You know, learning these stories about our great grandparents, our shared great grandparents. You know all of these components of what our fiber of our being is and who we are. So it's been really fun.
Joann: And I like the idea of sort of like mapping out these stories, learning the little that I have. But thank God for meeting Tala's mom who can share some stories that I can add to this. But like I said, she helped identified some really big gaps in my brain. Right? I will share this one story with you. It's really embarrassing on my behalf for someone who really likes family lineage.
Joann: My grandfather and her grandfather are one of 14 children.
Joann: One of their siblings was a nun.
Joann: Okay? So I grew up calling her Auntie Rahbe. The word Rahbeh means none. I didn't know that I thought Rahda was her name.
Joann: Okay.
Joann: So when I am trying to fill out family tree, and this is while my father was alive, I was like, what was the nun's name? And he's like, I don't know. And I went down to the family tree looking at it just being like, why is she not on here? Why is she not on here? Why did they leave the nun off and thinking like, Is this some sort of like?
Joann: you know, whatever she was a nun, she's no longer part of the family. Did we excommunicate her? Why is she not there fast forward to 2024 going to meet Tala's mom being like, hey? Can you answer some gaps in this? It's not that she wasn't on there. It's that we didn't know what her name was before she became a nun, right? Because when she became a nun she took on one name, and we knew her as Esmeralda or Amelia Amelia.
Joann: See, don't still don't.
Amanne: It's almost like I don't know.
Joann: Her. Her birth name was Namit, right like I we I would have never known that my father didn't even know that.
Amanne: Right, but it's.
Joann: Took meeting talent in a tatreez circle, and again I knew this nun, like I, grew
Joann: very close to us, like she was a gift to us. But like, how did I not even know her name? So Tala's mom was like, no, she's on here. You just don't know her name. I'm like.
Joann: thanks, thanks, auntie, that's helpful. So you know, filling in those gaps is really helpful, and it has inspired me to get a little bit further into this project.
Lina: I mean to be fair. 14 siblings. That's a lot to keep track of. Yeah.
Amanne: Yeah, it is.
Lina: Families are huge, because I feel like my uncle is really obsessed with this as well, and he basketball
Lina: for the family, and it has all the different, you know, branches. But it's also like knowledge that has typically been shared orally like people don't typically write this down. And so if you don't have access to the person who can tell you. I guess this is Tala's mom, you know, if you don't have access to that person or the people who have this knowledge. It's like, that's why it's so amazing that you're writing it down, because there's no way you could have kept up with with all of
Lina: the details, else.
Joann: But and this is also like how Tala was saying like is getting her to connect with like her elders, and all of that. It's getting me to talk to, you know, different family members around the world like, I haven't spoken to you once in my 40 years of life, but I'm working on this. Can you tell me about your grandfather or your aunt or uncle like? Can you give me some names, dates, and I'm going back and asking people questions about people that were around in like 1870. Right like, that's a long time ago. Right? I'm like, Do you have
Joann: happen to know what her maiden name was, but it's helping me to connect from, you know, a large part of family everywhere in diaspora being like, Hey, you!
Joann: You're my mom's cousin. You've never met me, but like nice to meet you, can you answer some questions? So again, it's just a lot of different connections in so many different ways. But that's kind of like what thread does right? The thread binds us together. It's, you know, in multiple ways. It's keeping us. It's bringing us together. It's keeping us together, whether it's in Tetris or in these photos, or trying to figure out our family lineage so that we can document it.
Amanne: Yeah.
Amanne: yeah, it's so important to be able to do that and you know a lot of people don't have that luxury so the fact that you guys do. It's so important like, I love that you guys are doing this. And there's so many layers to it. There's the imagery that you know, you archive, Joanne. Then there's the stories. There is this family tree. And now there's this addition of like making it a little bit more vibrant with the threes. I just I love that
Amanne: I cannot wait to like. Continue, every time you guys post like a new picture you guys show up to a circle like stitching a new picture. It's so exciting to see there is something like
Amanne: to me personally. There's something a little extra special about like when you're doing these photos projects with your own family's like photos like, it's just obviously, it's more personal. It just feels more powerful. It's just it's beautiful to see I love it. And I've been
Amanne: like honestly loving to see what you guys have been doing. The black and whites, the colors. I encourage everyone to like, take a look, and we'll share your guys, socials and everything, and share some imagery of the work that you guys are doing. And you know, kind of keeping on
Amanne: this same train of conversation. What do you guys hope to do like? What's the next chapter of this like, I know, Joanne, you said, it's going to be like a lifelong project. But, like, what do you guys want as the next chapter of your Tetris journeys, whether it's with this project, or with something else.
Tala: Yeah, I think I, personally have been loving the photo duties. It's like, you also are getting to like, look at these people and engage with the photo in a way that you don't really. When you just look at a photo right, you'll look at it, or you can like frame it put it up. But this is like I'm staring at these pictures for so long stitching.
Tala: So it's felt really powerful, and it's gotten, I think people to share old photos more than they maybe otherwise would have.
Tala: So I had mentioned my trip to Cyprus to visit my khalto. I am currently stitching a photo like for her, and it's a picture of her in a thobe, and she's standing in the garden in the Ramallah house, and so I'm stitching that. And it's like it just feels so powerful right to like. See her in a thobe in the Ramallah house. And I'm just like
Tala: gonna stare at it for hours and hours while I stitch it. So I just want to keep doing like all the all the photos, and then like gift them to the people so like, I'm going to gift this to my, and I just stitched one for my mom. That's my mom and my great grandma, and they're standing together in Ramallah. So I gifted that to my mom for mother's day. So I feel like gifting, gifting. These things feels really powerful.
Tala: Yeah, I also just did a well. I'm doing it now.
Tala: A raffle for customized photos to help raise funds for my family, my friend's family in a Gaza.
Tala: So I feel like there's just so many ways to utilize photos. So thank you, Amani, for teaching me
Amanne: Thank you guys for.
Joann: Oh, yeah.
Amanne: Making it your own like.
Tala: Yeah.
Amanne: I love seeing it. And you guys both like both Tala and Joanne. You guys both do a lot of work with like Raffles and fundraisers and stuff. So we'll definitely share that because this we're recording a little earlier versus when this episode will air. But I definitely want to share that because you guys are constantly doing doing stuff. And you know, it's it's amazing that you guys have the the time and the energy to do all this amazing work, and I think it's important for people to support it. So we'll definitely share all of that information.
Amanne: Hmm.
Joann: In true cousin fashion.
Joann: I've gifted 99.9% of anything that I've stitched right? Like one. I'm anti consumerism, right? So like this has just made me like at the beginning of the month. I'm like, whose birthday is this month like, am I gonna stitch them a card. Am I going to make them earrings right like it makes me one think about someone not like the day of to be like? Let's put it in Amazon order for junk that they can get themselves.
Joann: So it's really stretched. And I it was funny because you said something like 2 circles ago, Manny, you're like, I don't make wearables, and I never thought about that, because all I do is make wearables to like gift to people right? So that they're showing 10 cities, right? So you know, I've just gifted, you know, whatever I make you know, thinking about that person. I've also used your art of photo tatreez to honor people who have passed away, and like sharing their photos with like their family
Joann: members. But I've just made so many things. But then, when I can't put a value to it right like how Lena was saying, like, I would never sell a piece. But if I you know, I've been inspired by so many people. On this podcast I think it was. The Halimah project said that there was like some patterns that she had for free. I took one of her watermelon map of Palestine watermelon.
Joann: put on a cafe. I made $700 for a family and one raffle off of that right? So what? That's 4 h of my work. $30 for a cafe that you know, sustained a family for a couple of days. So once, like, you know I contacted a little bit of reinforcement. I'm like, Okay, I'm going to keep doing this so like I would have themed Raffles, you know, like it was all of harvest season, so I had some fresh olive oil from
Joann: back home, and then I just stitched like a tea towel with like an olive pattern on there, you know. $5, Raffles, for people in their brain to think like I could get that for $5 across a couple of people, or the extra generous people who donate more than 5. But you know, once like it became
Joann: reinforcing or bountiful in some ways I just kept doing it right.
Joann: But then, you know.
Joann: the perfection idea came in right like, I'm giving this to people like this can't be messy. Right? So then I started like having to alter what I was doing. But you know I've definitely done a lot of Raffles, and I appreciate everyone who has been like, you know, very generous. And that's a lot of the same people. Right like these are the compassionate people with a bleeding heart that whether they want the product or not right. They just want to help and know that that money is going to someone in Gaza.
Joann: So it's been fun. But you know, doing these, Raffles has really become like just a part of my everyday like, I'm constantly thinking about. What can I make next like what is selling like? What are people excited about like making graphs of like this. This raffle made this much at Christmas time. I think, Lena, you inspired me. I made Christmas ornaments
Joann: right like those didn't bring in as much, because again, half of the population doesn't even celebrate Christmas. So like, I've had to think about like what is going to draw in the most people. But I've been largely inspired by people you've had on this podcast obviously, both of you have inspired majority of what I have done in terms of just learning or doing the photo stuff. But again, like I said, like just the gifting, it's the gift that keeps on giving right.
Joann: It's going to be. What way? More personable, even if it is small, right small set of earrings? Tala saw me working on those 2 weeks ago. They took me forever. But again I spent 6 hours on that. I didn't just click a button on the Internet.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joann: Heart into this for you. So that's also just, you know.
Joann: like I said, my hobby has become my personality, and it's the way that I can continue to connect to people.
Amanne: Love, love, love, love, all right. So
Amanne: I know we could continue to talk forever. But being mindful of time, you know, we always like to ask before we say goodbye to our guests. If there are any major life lessons that you've learned from. So that's pretty pressure. But maybe, Tala, do you want to start.
Tala: Oh, God!
Amanne: Off.
Tala: I should have prepared for this question.
Tala: I think the threes has definitely like
Tala: instilled confidence in me of like what I yeah, like.
Tala: you know, kind of getting back to the messy back stuff of like, I don't have to be a perfectionist. And what I make is still beautiful, even if it's not perfect.
Tala: And I think the the other lessons that tatreez has taught is.
Tala: yeah. There are so many connections to be made with people, and in like ways I just never would have realized, or with people who I already connect with, but has. It's now gotten deeper through through this craft.
Tala: and it's you know tatreez is just so much more than a craft to me.
Amanne: I love the confidence, Joanne.
Joann: Life lessons of tatreez. So much right, I think, in honoring our past, our present, our future. I think that I think you know the community that I've learned to embrace. And again, being so inspired by all of these wonderful humans, not just their Tetris, but their stories, right and just how genuine and open and fun. Right? I'm like this.
Joann: you know me like I'm driving an hour to circles right? Just because I want to be a part of this community. Again. The team, messy back in the perfection thing like that has allowed me to engage in the art without holding my breath, and being tense.
Amanne: So.
Joann: It has been therapeutic in a million one ways like we've talked about this over and over. It's not just the hand and the body. But you know, being able to do it, whether we're in peace and thinking about
Joann: our past ones while we're stitching their photos, we're thinking about our martyrs, whatever it may be, it's been incredibly therapeutic, and to use it as a form of therapy, not just an art. I think that it's incredibly powerful, and to also decide into just honoring anything that people do by hand and with love.
Joann: Right? I think you know, just knowing. And I learned this from one of my aunts. That handmade gifts are just the best like. It doesn't matter that there's no actual physical money that went to, but the love that goes into it. And I think sharing that has been incredibly powerful. So it's not. It's it's gone beyond cook for people, and do other forms of gift, giving by my hand, and with love.
Joann: So just draw. Put all of these pieces together, but more so than anything, I think the therapeutic components of being mindful. And every time I'm doing a stitch, thinking about a martyr thinking about a family member thinking about our people, and what they're going through, and how privileged we are
Joann: to have this community to be in diaspora and to be able to connect. It's just been
Joann: life changing. So thank you, ladies, for bringing this into my life.
Amanne: Baby, you're so sweet. Thank you for contributing to the community like.
Tala: Yes.
Amanne: There's no community without all of us.
Joann: It's true, and thank you for driving so far for the circles. Oh, you're coming to San Jose for.
Tala: Oh, yeah, I'll come to you so excited.
Amanne: I was telling Lena before we started recording. I was like, we're going to Joanne's house before we're all going to hang out. So really excited.
Joann: It is teaching it.
Tala: It's done.
Joann: Into tatreez. It's gonna extend. Beyond that, you know, we can do cooking classes. We could do all of it.
Amanne: I'm just gonna put a little bias plug. But like, if you're not from the Bay Area like Palestinian community like you should kind of like, come and check us out. We're kind of dope.
Joann: Fun.
Amanne: Biased. We're kind of. We're kind of awesome.
Lina: Oh, my God, I love it! No, I mean ultimately, tatreez is so magical, and this is like the manifestation of it is through your stories, your connection with each other. I'm obsessed with all of it.
Lina: Okay, well, both. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's been an absolute pleasure to hear both of your stories and another reminder on like, why this podcast is so awesome is because we get to meet people like you and and make these connections and build the community.
Lina: I just I love it. I love it all so much. How can people follow you guys and get in touch if they want to. If they want to talk more about your what you guys are up to tell us all the places.
Tala: Yeah. Well, I have an Instagram it's at tatreez with Tala.
Joann: Use. Everyone should go. Follow that now. Instagram, you know me, elder Millennial barely know how to use social media. But I you know I've learned in the last couple of years my handle is@joanne.com.
Lina: I love that every time I see it I think of joanne.com.
Lina: which I know is probably the purpose.
Joann: It was before Joanne's fabric became bankrupt. Okay.
Lina: Yeah, yeah, I know. No, I know, I know.
Lina: Thank you guys so much. We really really loved having you guys on.
Joann: Thanks for having team messy back.
Tala: You. Yes, thanks for promoting us and our manifesto.
Amanne: Yes, I'm expecting that manifesto written. We're posting it to the world.
Joann: Yes.
Tala: Thank you both. I'll see you both soon.
Lina: That was so much fun. Honestly, I felt like it was almost like a circle on the podcast.
Amanne: And that's what it felt like. It was like, we're just chatting about the trees and team messy back. And like, that's actually what we talk about in a lot of circles. That's so
Amanne: funny. I mean, that's the vibe of our Sf Bay area to 3 circles like.
Lina: I guess.
Amanne: Just good vibes. Good people like I obviously am biased, but Big Fan, of both Joanne and Tala and I just adore them. I adore their energy, and even you know, you and I talked a little bit about this offline. But one of the things I always love, and you know people again. Like all jokes aside, people know I'm like
Amanne: obsessive about my back. But I also say, like it's I didn't
Amanne: like the way Tala was explaining it like how you know she was being taught, and it was being enforced on her like I can see the pressure and how that's not fun. I always say, like, you know, I for me, I like a clean back. It's like own personal thing, is it? This puzzle? It's fun for me. But I can see how it can be this barrier. And you actually said it, Lena, before we were recording, but, like you said like this, felt like a conversation where people are giving themselves permission to like, do.
Lina: Yeah.
Amanne: Their own way. And I like that. You said that because I agree, and I love the way like both Joann and Tala are like putting it. And it's like, you know, like, I'm not going to put this pressure on myself. I'm just going to do the thing and how it allowed, like Tata, specifically to like, really embrace the tatreez. And you know, like she said it too. You asked her, how messy are these backs like? I will say I have seen her backs like they're not that bad like. They're not that bad.
Lina: I'm sure, or they're not, and I'm sure.
Amanne: But I think again, that goes back to what we were saying earlier during the episode. Like, I know, we're always the hardest on ourselves right? So I just. I love the conversation I love both of their energy, and I absolutely love that. They
Amanne: met and got connected, and then formed like deeper family connections through Tetris, and again being biased, but specifically through our local Tetris, like community here in San Francisco. So it just it warmed my heart to have them on and like, listen to their story and have them share it.
Lina: I love that. Yeah. And I think on the permission front as well. I'm now remembering that because I remember there were like several instances during the conversation I was like, Oh, my God! I love that! This is an opportunity to give permission to somebody, but it was like one on the messy back, but 2 on the like valuation of, and how Tala was talking about her, her visiting her khalto and bringing it out, and like almost like giving permission.
Amanne: Yeah.
Lina: So to like, show off her work, and like, have that conversation, and also just ultimately, on top of everything. It's like giving all of us permission to ask questions to our elders and ask our family members to get to know each other and get to know these people who came before us. And you know who have had a huge impact on who we are today. Let's be real, whether it's directly or indirectly. So I just yeah, I really like that. This whole episode was like basically giving permission to all of us to
Lina: kind of come to all of this as ourselves.
Lina: Because that's what that's what we are. We are a community, we are, and all of us are part of it, like, it's not a community like you said, without any one of us not included. So.
Amanne: Yeah.
Lina: Really love, that.
Amanne: Yeah. And I think again, like the last thing I'll say on it. You know, Tala had commented about like the fact that she might not be doing everything the quote unquote, pristine, traditional way. And I think it's very especially as somebody who teaches tatreez. I think it's extremely important for all of us to
Amanne: understand and honor the traditions, but, as has been said many times in many different conversations with so many different that Therese artists that we've spoken to on this podcast and separately, like
Amanne: the threes, is also something to make your own.
Lina: No.
Amanne: So you you learn and you honor those traditions. You acknowledge those traditions, but it's okay to make it your own.
Amanne: It's just great to see people do that. And yeah, I cannot wait to see what both of them continue to create. Well, all right
Amanne: again. Thank you guys so much for listening to Tatreez Talk. We always have a blast chatting with you, and of course, as usual, we want to hear your own tatreez stories, so please share them with us at tatreeztalk@gmail.com. And we might have you on an upcoming episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the Podcast on your favorite listening platform, and be sure to leave us a 5 star review. You can follow me @minamanne and Lina @linasthobe, and you can follow the pod @tatreeztalk. We'll talk to you soon.
