S4E7 of Tatreez Talk: From Tatreez to Texts with Tala Fahmawi
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I first got to know Tala through her beautiful children’s books—and our early conversations quickly turned into something deeper. We spoke about our shared desire to see more children’s literature that is rooted in indigenous frameworks: stories that prioritize patience, connection, and a deep sense of place, rather than rushing toward productivity, profit, or the pressures of capitalism. Tala’s work reminds me what’s possible when we create from a place of love, resistance, and care for future generations.
Stay tuned, because there is a lot more coming from Tala!
Episode Shownotes
TALA IS A CHILDREN’S BOOK AUTHOR AND THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OR GOOD RAIN PUBLISHING, AN INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN OWNED CHILDREN'S PUBLISHER (@tala.loves.books; @goodrainpublishing). She shares her family’s roots in Umm al-Fahm and how her identity as a Palestinian in the U.S. shaped her storytelling.
Tala’s work centers Palestinian narratives often missing from children’s literature. She highlights the power of stories as tools for resistance, representation, and cultural preservation—and her hope that all children can see themselves reflected with pride and depth. We also talk about the joy of dressing her daughter in a thobe (that she’s making in front of her eyes!) and what it means to pass that heritage on.
We explore the intersections of literature, art, and activism—plus Tala’s journey in indie publishing and the importance of decolonizing our bookshelves.
Want to support her work? Tala is looking for help spreading the word, navigating publishing, and sharing her books—reach out if you can help!
You’ll hear about:
>> 0:43: Tala’s connection to Palestine
>> 3:10: Tala’s tatreez journey
>> 5:23: The impact of tatreez on Tala’s Palestinian identity
>> 10:55: The story behind her daughter’s thobe
>> 17:18: Good Rain Publishing and journey as a small business owner
>> 26:30: Advice on incorporating Palestine meaningfully with children
>> 35:22: What’s next for Tala’s tatreez journey
>> 36:37: Tala’s major life lessons from tatreez
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Links Mentioned
>> Get your Palestine books from Good Rain Publishing website
Transcript
Amanne: Hi stitchers! Welcome to tatreez talk, where we share conversations about Palestinian embroidery. I'm Amani here with my co-host, Lina, chatting with talented embroiderers and artists sharing their stories, inspirations, and the cultural significance behind their work.
Lina: On today's episode. We are chatting with Tala, a children's book author and the Executive Director of Good Rain Publishing, which is an independent Palestine-owned children's Publisher. Welcome to tatreez Talk. Tala
Tala: Hello, everyone! I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me
Amanne: Yay, we are excited to have you so. Tala, can you start us off by sharing with our listeners about you and your family's connection to Philistine?
Tala: Yeah. So I'm Palestinian. My dad's side of the family. My name is we're originally from a little village called IM Al Fahim. That's where our name comes from. But after some like flooding, happened in IM Fahim, like historically, the family moved to Tulkarim. So my dad's side of the family says they're from Tulkarem, and a lot of them are in Tulkarim. My mom's side of the family is like, really, really close by.
Tala: So that general area
Amanne: Amazing.
Amanne: Think!
Amanne: Did you get a chance to go and visit Philistine growing up
Tala: I visited Philistine twice in my life. For context. I was born in Jordan. My family immigrated to Canada, and then immigrated to the us, so I've generally grown up in the West, and I only spent, probably collectively, like
Tala: like 60 days, 60 days in Palestine in my whole life, but they were pretty, inpactful reflecting. Sometimes I can be a little bit in my head about it, because I was so young.
Tala: and I kept thinking like, I wish I did this. I wish I did this. I wish I did so many things for that short amount of time that I was able to be actually in Philistine, but I'm grateful for those 60 days
Lina: Yeah, how old were you when you went?
Lina: The 1st time I went I was 16, and the second time I went I was 21.
Lina: Okay? So you remember, you remember those visits
Tala: I do?
Lina: Yeah.
Tala: Yeah.
Lina: That's so beautiful!
Amanne: Yeah, I actually have not made it there yet. So
Amanne: I'm like, it's a. It's a big. It's a big, big big to do on my list. It's like the top of my list. And so I can only imagine, you know, being able to go, as you know, like even 16, like you're you're starting to become like a little adult if you will. And being able to go and having that gap, have have you tried to go back at any point
Tala: I think it'd be really difficult when I went. I didn't have as public of a Palestinian profile as I do now, and I think I'd have a really hard time getting it, especially with my books and some things that I do.
Tala: And this is horrible, because there are people who like, live in Palestine, and have to experience this every day, but I think, like my heart would shatter to see all the checkpoints and all of the horrible things our people have to go through.
Tala: But one day, Insha'llah, we're going to be there when it's free. Yeah.
Amanne: Inshallah
Lina: Inshallah. So maybe this is a good time to discuss your tatreez journey. So when did that start for you? How did you learn? What does it mean for you to do, tatreez?
Tala: Yeah. So my mom actually didn't teach me tatreez. She embroidered a lot before like she had kids. My dad told me that they had this like giant, like 70,000 stitch, like portrait that she did. But it wasn't to threes. It was like one of the Dmc.
Tala: Ones, and when I got pregnant. My 1st daughter. I don't know. It was really random. I was like, you know, what. Let's try this. And I signed up for an online class with the. And I learned a little bit through that. And ever since then I've kind of been self-taught. And it's just something that I've really really grown to love, and something that's really, meaningfully connected me to my identity.
Tala: I'm working on my daughter's 1st thobe.
Tala: which is really, really exciting, that she gets to wear something that I did by hand for her
Amanne: And just doing. Art has
Tala: Like. I feel like when I sit and I do, tatreez. All that is on my mind is like the women historically have sat down and done the same thing.
Tala: and I was telling Lena this the other day, but it empowers me because it gives me a sense that no matter what happens to our land. No matter what happens, we will still have won, because the people who violently expelled us, who tried to steal our culture to erase us.
Tala: would not have, in their wildest dreams, imagined that the daughters and the granddaughters and the great granddaughters would be sitting and doing the same indigenous practice of the people that they violently expel like. They didn't think that we would maintain our culture and maintain our traditions.
Tala: So that gives me some hope and makes me feel like really grateful. And it's also provided me with such incredible spaces to connect with other people in the community. I love talking to other Palestinians. And my mom was saying this the other day, and I think it's so true. She was like, well, her generation they didn't really care, but like they're seeing so many young people really get into it, which is so incredibly beautiful to see
Amanne: Yeah, no, I totally hear that. I love love, love, everything you're saying so. How has your relationship with your Palestinian identity shifted as you've gotten deeper into this tatreez practice
Tala: Okay, I'm like a little bit nerdy that I
Tala: read a lot, and I feel like a lot of my reflections and a lot of my thinking kind of like goes back to theory, and a lot of like the literature, and even like academic texts that I consume. So I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with Orientalism by Edward Said.
Tala: If people listening are not familiar, Edward said, was a like really really well-known scholar, and in the seventies he coined the term Orientalism, which largely refers to how the West has made itself
Tala: experts on the Orient or the West, or people like us through a lens of colonialism and through a lens of subjugation, and through a lens that ultimately has the goal to justify our subjugation right that talks down to us that looks at us like we're barbarians that really misconstrues our culture.
Tala: and I like feel that in any piece of art or work I do I want to work against those narratives right? And a lot of the post-colonial art projects, and the post-colonial writing has come out, has situated a largely diaspora.
Tala: which is people that live in the Occident or the West as spokespeople for the Orient.
Tala: And there's this really incredible scholar named Lisa Luau, and I hope I'm saying her name correct. But in 2,007 she coined this term called Reorientalism.
Tala: which
Tala: I found really interesting, and I've been really digging deep into, because it's something that I've like reflected on separately, which is how a lot of times, because us as diaspora are so disconnected from our identity when we act as representatives. Sometimes we can be doing the work of Orientalism without even knowing it.
Tala: which is super like heartbreaking. And it's sad because it's not our fault all the time. They're the ones who stripped us of our culture and and made it so much less profound, and made us so much less connected to it than we actually are. So when I do, tatreez, and when I think about tatreez, I try to operate from a framework that works against things like that.
Tala: So I do try my best to due diligence, to say like, what does this pattern mean? What does it represent? What area is it? Is it from?
Tala: And not so much as like the DIY, just copying what I found. It looks pretty things like that.
Tala: and even on the thobe that I'm working on for my daughter. I was like telling her that this is going to be your thob Mariouma. I'm doing flowers on it. And she came up to me, and she was like mama. If you don't speak Arabic, that means like a heart. She wants a heart on the thobe, and I was like, you know what? I haven't really seen hearts on traditional thobes. And I was like, Do I want to put a heart on this?
Tala: And then I thought about it, and I said, Well, if we go down to the root of the what it is, these women embroidered what they wanted, what what represented them.
Tala: what they had in their environment, and I felt that it would be inauthentic of me to try to copy the old thobs from Tulkarim that my grandma used to stitch just to do that
Tala: right. So I decided, no, I'm going to put. I'm going to put a heart on your throat, because that's what you want, and Patrice is about putting what we want on our clothing stitch by stitch. So that's kind of like the framework that I try to operate with, and I try to be as reflective as possible in those processes. But yeah, that was a long, winded answer. But
Lina: No, that's a beautiful answer, and I think Amanda and I I don't know if you notice we're like both, just like nodding bigger
Amanne: Yes, we're like, yes, this
Lina: Every word resonates, every word resonates, and I think, like back to your point about Reorientalism, which I think is actually really fascinating, and something that I've been thinking about, especially in the last year and a half or so
Lina: I feel like, especially if you, if you grow up in the West, and you lose complete access to the Middle East, like I feel like, because I moved back and forth. There was a little bit of break in that. But if you don't have those opportunities to go back and to, you know, see what's happening, and and talk to the people who are living in the Middle East and in your home village or your home country.
Lina: you get brainwashed because you are. You are. Even if in your house your parents are speaking to you in a harrow, be, and you can maintain as much culture within the private home
Lina: you're still engaging with the West, and how I mean, just look at the news cycle over the last year and a half with this genocide. It's like, that's what people are listening to. That's what people are hearing. And so you have. You're automatically like taking it in. Even if you don't believe it, it kind of it gets there and
Amanne: Unconscious.
Lina: Yeah. And it's it's a hundred percent true which makes it so much more
Lina: important and critical that we center our people's voices. We work with our people. We like prioritize all of those different things. So thank you so much for sharing it in such an eloquent way.
Amanne: Also, I do have to add, there are some heart motifs. I gotta send you. So there's
Lina: And
Tala: There's a really pretty one from I'll send it to you.
Tala: Oh, my God, that's amazing! I would love to see it
Amanne: Yeah.
Lina: Yeah, totally. Oh, I love. Yeah, this was such a great, a great answer to the question. And let's can we talk a little bit about your daughter's, thobe. I want to hear all the details. When did you decide? How are you approaching the design? You mentioned a little bit about the meanings behind some of the motifs. But tell us more the colors and all of the things that you're embedding in that thobe
Tala: So I really wanted this, though, to be something that she remembers. So I've tried to include her as much as I can in the process, and my daughter medium. She's 4, and she has a lot of opinions
Amanne: We love it.
Tala: But when I wear a thobe right, and I like do my hair and my makeup, and I go out, and she's like mama. You look like a princess. She like loves it, and I was like, mama. Guess what I'm going to make you one. Are you excited? And she said, she's so excited.
Tala: And I thrifted some like fabric, like some black fabric. And I was. I kind of like did it? I'm doing it piece by piece, but I decided to do like 2 big side panels and then a chest piece, and I'm going to embroider some of the arms and then hopefully put it together I'm using. I'm gonna let her go to the fabric store and pick the fabric that goes in between. But she wants like purple and pink.
Tala: A lot of the palm. The motifs that I picked are from Khalil. We're not from Khalil, but a lot of the ones that she liked. A lot of the flowers and things like that are from Khalil. So it was really fun to tell her, Mom, this is Khalil. This is what this means and I also got like Stras, like the crystals, because she wants it to be sparkly
Amanne: Oh, I love her! I'm obsessed with her and her thoughts not wait to see this
Lina: Okay.
Tala: Just go ahead.
Tala: Well, I was just gonna ask, is she involved in the actual stitching? Are you getting her? I know she's 4.
Tala: Oh, the needle
Lina: Yeah.
Amanne: Serious.
Tala: The mom, can I pull? And I said, Sure you can pull, and she's like pulled the the waste canvas from the 1st piece that I did
Lina: Oh, yeah.
Tala: Some of the colors. So she's really, really excited. I'm like, really proud of her, because I just think it's she's gonna remember this, like, sometimes I'm
Amanne: Yes.
Tala: See cause not a lot of people hand stitch children's thobes, because how long are they gonna wear them like
Amanne: Yeah.
Tala: Largely unheard of like when I told my mom she was like, Why don't you just make it big for when she's big? And I said, No, she's gonna wear it. And then Little Sister is gonna wear it, and then we're gonna keep it. So it's gonna be fine
Amanne: Yeah, yeah.
Tala: But I'm just trying my best to make it, not something that I just do when I need time to relax and reflect, but something that she sees me doing, and she remembers like No, my mom.
Tala: And now she says that she goes mama, and then she'll come up to me, and she'll be like careful with the needle. Careful
Lina: Where did it go?
Tala: It's really, it's been nice. Yeah.
Amanne: That is so cute. I'm like, I'm obsessed. That is the most adorable thing, and I love that you are making her a part of the process, because, like, even when she outgrows that thobe she's not going to outgrow those memories, and that's so so important. And I think you were, you were talking yourself about, and obviously as an author, it makes sense that storytelling is so important for you, and it's such a big part of the threes and has become a big
Amanne: like a universal language. I feel like we've talked to a few people recently who've used that term, too. So you know what is the story that you want your daughter to take away from after you know, after she outgrows this tool as she gets older, like. What's the story you want her to take away from that dog
Tala: So I feel like like again, I'm I'm in my mind. I'm always like big picture reflections. And sometimes I think I'm like crazy, like. Sometimes I'm like, Okay, you need to chill. Not everything. Is this deep but a lot of times I'm like, it is this deep.
Tala: And I want her to remember how long this took. I want her to remember how long I worked on it, and I want her to know that just because this one piece of clothing took me over a year to make for her that it was worth it right? I'm really trying to use this, though making process with her, not only as a way to make her proud of her Palestinian identity, but to really sow the seeds of like anti-capitalist ideas
Tala: and things that like, and sometimes efficiency isn't always the goal right. Sometimes we do art for the sake of arts, and that should be celebrated.
Tala: And I'm pushed more and more to really be serious about having those conversations with her, and
Tala: and really talk about the people behind the clothing that we wear and the people behind the works of art that we see, especially with the advent of things like AI.
Tala: So that's that's kind of like where I'm always orienting myself with her. And with this work
Tala: she's really little like she can say Philistine, but I don't think she fully has a conception of like where we are from, because she's never been to Philistine.
Tala: and I'm just hoping that when she grows up and when she reflects a lot of the lessons that are not connecting for her right now will connect for her in the future.
Lina: Yeah. And I think I think just by you practicing in front of her. But that by itself.
Lina: I think, is really powerful, because the process of making, especially for a thob, even if it is for a small little person, it takes a long time, and so it's just like she's just going to be seeing you do this. And I mean, I've told this story before on the podcast but for me, like one of the big Aha moments was when I like, did the big, my 1st big piece, and I was at home in between graduating in a new job. And I had a month, and I was just all day
Lina: this same piece, and it was a pillow that we have in our living room, and because I was home all day my father would like come and go, and like always see me working on this piece, and so he would come, wake up, see me working, go grab coffee. See me working. Go to the gym, see me working, do work whatever see me working, and like 3 weeks in he's like, Are you still seriously working on the same piece. And I'm like, Yeah, it takes a lot of time. And he's like, Yeah, but I didn't pay enough for the original pillow that you're that you're kind of using as your inspiration.
Lina: And I'm just like, well, now, you know, you need to pay more or do it yourself. Yeah. So it's, I think, just by you doing it in front of her is really powerful. And it's it's going to be something that she remembers, and also a piece that she'll cherish and hopefully pass down to her children.
Lina: I love that maybe we can segue now to your work with Good Rain publishing. Tell us more about that. What was like the conception of this publishing house? What are your goals with that? Because I feel like what you're doing with your daughter through this thobe is actually similar in kind of your goals.
Tala: Yeah, it's a hundred percent similar. Like, all my things are inspired by my kids just to give a little bit more information. I have 3. I have a 4 year old. I have a 2 year old, and I have my daughter's gonna turn one next month.
Tala: and everything I do is for them, and everything I do is for kids who are like them. Like I said, like, I've always been a big reader, and I love to read, and I love to write like in general. But when I had kids I really honed in on children's literature, and I went to Jordan, and I lived in Qatar for a little bit, and I was looking at the Arabic children's literature because my kids speak Arabic, and we try to do only Arabic at home.
Tala: and I wasn't like. I'm not not to say that there aren't good books. There are beautiful, wonderful books, but I didn't find something that I found super inspiring to me. So I said, You know what I'm going to make some for my kids.
Tala: So initially good rain publishing my goal was to create really high quality Arabic Children's book content.
Tala: But then, as I was reading the English content too, I noticed there was a gap with like meaningful representation for us by us as Palestinians, as Arabs, as Muslims. And I said, You know what like. Let's do everything. So we have baby books that are bilingual. We have baby books in English. We have baby books in Arabic, and we also have storybooks in English and Arabic, too, and I think a lot of the messaging in our books is the same thing that I was talking about with my daughters, thobe.
Tala: that I try to put as many community values and community morals in these books, and do it in a way that kind of respects the intelligence of the child where it isn't didactic. That was my big problem with a lot of the Arabic children's literature that I saw existed where it was all like teaching. A lesson like this is the book you take away this lesson, and I wanted to give kids the opportunity to come to their own conclusions, to have their own ideas and own thoughts.
Tala: So that's like the literature the children's literature that we're making a lot of. People ask me why I didn't traditionally publish, and
Tala: traditional publishing is like a fantastic route to reach as many people as possible, but because I wanted to stay as authentic as possible to my mission. I wanted to have full control.
Tala: The only way to do that is to kind of do it yourself.
Tala: and I also wanted every part of my company to speak my values. So when I 1st started off. And even today I would say, like 90% of the people that we hire are Palestinians in Palestine or Palestinians in the Diaspora. And if they're not Palestinian, they're other Arabs, because it's so important for us to narrate our own stories. And it's not only in the illustration, it's also in the editing. It's also in the translation. It's also in the Arabic, like, you know, like checking the
Tala: correct and I just want
Tala: us to have a platform where we can come together and, like, create these beautiful things for our children.
Tala: Because at the end of the day.
Tala: like I said, there are merits to traditional publishing. But these big houses they have Zionist money. They have Zionist connections.
Tala: and if my story is reaching all of the schools and all of the children and all of the bookstores. A part of my culture is still being used to by Zionist a profit, and if I am able to not do that like? Why not?
Tala: And like, I said, like, there's so many beautifully traditional, beautifully illustrated, beautifully done, books that are big by publishing house, and those are my friends. I love those people. I don't want to say anything bad about anyone who's chosen that route, but for me, because I am on a mission to create so many books, and not just one or 2. I thought it would be the best thing to open up my own independent press.
Tala: So that's kind of like a little bit about it. And the other thing is, not only did I want high quality Arabic for my kids, but Arabic books in general, those are really hard to get
Amanne: Yum, the Us.
Amanne: Yeah, they are.
Tala: And I feel like any time that I have a conversation with American Arabs. The one thing that I always hear them say is like. I wish I spoke Arabic
Tala: parents invested that time to give me that skill. It is such an underestimated, important connection to our culture to be able to talk to your relatives, to be able to consume, even like the silly memes that are on Tiktok, or the silly videos that are in Arabic, like being able to consume those and connect to those authentically, is so important
Amanne: Yeah.
Tala: So that's kind of why I started career in publishing
Amanne: That's amazing. I'm like, I'm very in awe of everything you're doing. That's like.
Amanne: honestly, I mean, we're not supposed to curse on here. But it's very wow,
Tala: Thank you.
Amanne: Yeah, no. And I, how has like this journey of like starting this completely like from scratch business? And then at the same time, like, you're also an author. So you're writing these books. How has that journey like, how have those challenges come up for you like? And how have you been dealing with all that
Tala: Oh, my God! The challenge is always money. We never have money to do anything.
Tala: I think anybody who started a business is like that's that's a challenge like it's a lot of investment from the beginning to get off of the ground. And and people think because you have a business, you make money, and it's just not true, like anybody who owns a small business knows like, especially us. And in these, like niche communities, and and who are making things for our community like this isn't necessarily profitable.
Tala: Yeah, and I think that like,
Tala: I've been really grateful to the people who've come, bought my books and things like that because they're coming, because they're like, you're a Palestinian publisher. We want to support you, which has been so fantastic. And at the end of the day. Like this is by us for us, for a reason. Right? And even though my company doesn't have as big of a reach as I wish it did like. I wish if you don't know anything about like book publishing, but they're kind of a big monopoly on distribution.
Tala: So if you're not with like a huge distributor, it's really hard to get your book into libraries, into schools and things like that. And we are working to get into those distribution spaces. It's just so difficult for now, people get our books directly through our business, like either on our website or other selling platforms that we have, and it's just been so heartwarming
Tala: to see the orders come in and to see emails and messages from people saying, Oh, my son loves your book. He started to say, this, my daughter, this is her favorite. Read. She wants to read it every night.
Tala: That's kind of like the reason, though, that we do everything
Lina: Yeah, of course, that's so beautiful. Okay, so if there was the ideal person for your business that you want to get in touch with listening. This episode. I don't know what the chances are, but
Lina: you never know.
Lina: You never know like who like, who would, what, what, or who
Lina: would make a huge difference for your business right now.
Lina: Anybody that can help me with marketing and distribution. Okay.
Amanne: Oh, happy!
Tala: Anyone that can help me market anyone that can help get the word out, because I always say that like we don't have not a lot of people know about us like we're small. We're new. I'm a mom of 3. And this is like, this is what I do. So I'm writing emails and doing an Instagram post between diaper changes at school drop off. So it's it's I wear all the hats.
Tala: Yeah.
Tala: Anybody that can help spread the word, and anybody who can who knows anything about the publishing industry, and can help with distribution like that. I would appreciate that so much. But even just sharing our books or or sharing our page does so much for us.
Tala: Our our illustrators get so so excited when their books are like widely shared. A lot of them are in, and a lot of them are
Tala: like it. They send me messages, and they're like, Oh, I saw your book on this, and it made me so excited, and I showed my friend like, it's it's really special
Lina: No, that's so beautiful. Amanne. Marketing plans
Amanne: I know.
Amanne: Go.
Amanne: We're gonna talk girl. Because I, my background is in brand marketing. So we're gonna talk. Yeah, we're we're gonna we're gonna talk a lot. Okay.
Amanne: I am curious. How has your Tetris journey impacted any future projects you might be doing under your publishing? Or as an author
Tala: Well, we have something really, really exciting that we're working on. I don't want to talk too much about it, because it's in the
Amanne: All good, all good sneak, peek, sneak, peek! Get the people excited, tease
Tala: Stay tuned, follow us because we are coming out with a beautiful children's book that may or may not be about tatreez, and that may or may not include a children's tatreez kid with it.
Amanne: Oh!
Lina: Okay. Okay.
Amanne: Noted, noted, noted.
Tala: So this this is. This is totally exclusive to 3.
Tala: Take
Amanne: I love it. Okay, definitely. That's very exciting. We will keep listening. Keep our eyes out because I want to hear more and see about that, and I'm sure a lot of people will want to know more about it.
Tala: Yeah.
Lina: Amazing, amazing. Okay, so a little bit related, but not related. Let's say someone comes up to you, a parent or an educator, and they're looking for advice on how to incorporate Palestine meaningfully, but aren't really sure where to start. What would you recommend? Both from like a book publishing perspective, but also
Tala: Yeah, I think, because, like, given, what's what's been happening for the past 2 years.
Tala: it is so I and I hate saying this. I hate saying this because we are people we shouldn't have to be humanized like I hate saying humanized Palestinians like. I hate saying that so much. But for people who are not Palestinian, for people who do not know a Palestinian or haven't interacted with our culture outside of the headlines that you see on
Tala: Cnn. Or whatever. And this is for a lot of parents, too. I want you to talk about Palestinian. Talk about Palestine, talk about Palestinians with your children like. They are people who have traditional clothing, who have traditional dishes, who celebrate in certain ways like 1st and foremost, before we are colonized. Before we are pressed. We are a people with a beautiful culture and beautiful history.
Tala: and like letting your children know about that and expose them to that initially, is really, really important. Because when you hear the headlines that make us faceless and nameless, your kids gonna be like, well, actually, I know these people. My neighbor, did this, or like the girl in the story that I read, does that
Tala: so the the 1st thing would be to include us in your
Tala: routines in your, in your classrooms, in your bedtime books, and then after that, it is essential that children and parents know our history and know the extent to which colonization has attempted to erase us.
Tala: Right? I just don't want that to be a starting point, but it is important, and that is your next step.
Lina: Can I ask a follow-up question? How do you talk to your kids about the history of Palestine?
Tala: I talk to my kids right now, I feel like Palestine for children is in stages. Right? So because my kids are literally my biggest is 4 years old. We talk about, we talk about. We talk about the paw in her head and walk around.
Tala: get pictures. We, my daughters, sings like traditional songs
Tala: I I know all the like the old Palestinian nursery rhymes that we do together.
Tala: So I'm building that portion of their identity where it is on the map, what it looks like
Amanne: Like.
Tala: We got like oranges the other day, and I was like, you know, where the yummiest oranges in the world from. They're from Yaffa
Amanne: It's very cultural based, right?
Tala: I'll try again
Amanne: Yeah, that's how it is with my nephew, too.
Amanne: As soon as she hits, like 7.
Amanne: Yeah, yeah.
Tala: And like the political, educational.
Amanne: Yeah.
Tala: Yeah, cause I just think it's hard for them to to like fully
Amanne: Yeah.
Tala: You know.
Amanne: They're not going to get that at 4 years old, but at 4 they can understand culture and experience it and start understanding. Oh, I'm Palestinian like. Now, my nephew, my nephew is a little older. He's 5, but, like now he knows like Oh, we're Palestinian, and like he can identify the map and the flag, and like he'll tell people like, you know, I'm from Palestine. So it's like those cultural moments that get them excited. Even we took him to eat prayer, and he was like, that was fun. I was like, Okay, yes, yes, it was fun.
Amanne: That's adorable. So I'm also curious to hear from you a little bit about like
Amanne: what is a meaningful way to just like continue for Palestinians like, especially Palestinians, living in diaspora, like, for example, like someone like me. You know I have also never been to Palestine, as I mentioned earlier, like.
Amanne: how would you recommend I were to incorporate Palestine, for, like children in my life, like my nephew, for example.
Tala: This is kind of hard depending on your comfortability with Arabic, but I always start language. So if you speak Arabic, make it a priority to use only Arabic with the people who you know that speak Arabic, that I find super super important, even if your Arabic is broken, even if you only know certain words or certain things. The words that you do know those are the words you're going to use.
Tala: So language 1st and foremost, like I do books. This is my obvious answer. I feel like it's a little too, on the nose, but it generally is something that I find super super important like, if you look at some psychology research and some of the stuff that's come out, language largely shapes how we think it's even like a reciprocal relationship. So if you do not have the words to articulate certain things, your mind actually cannot think about them.
Tala: and to give your the people in your life. Access to the ability to talk and think about things in different ways in different languages is really really powerful, more so than you would initially think
Tala: and other than that, I think
Tala: going back to like the real Orientalism thing.
Tala: This requires so much work on our part to do the research to have meaningful conversations to meaningfully reflect, because it can be so easy to throw on a Philistine sweater, to hang on to certain symbols and not fully understand them, and to just like regurgitate the aspects
Amanne: Next of them
Tala: Culture that we still have ties to, but at the end of the day that is still
Tala: I don't know how to explain it, but it's like watering us down a little bit
Tala: So, anyway. And you can't do this with everything right. We can't wake up tomorrow and be experts in a culture that was that we were ripped apart from, but we can do it with with certain things, so you can maybe make it a mission to say, well, I'm going to learn everything I can about this specific dish. So when I teach my kid to make it, when I make it for dinner, when I talk about it, I can say something that is like really meaningful and really connected about it.
Amanne: Text, yeah.
Tala: Yeah, exactly like I really loved Lena, your project with, was it Cochineal? Or how do you say that the insect that died
Lina: Oh, yeah. Cochineal. Yeah.
Tala: That is so incredible, because I think about that all the time, like, how did women in Philistine change the color of the threads before the British imported Dmc. And things like that.
Tala: And it's and another thing, too, I would say, is really embracing, not knowing everything
Tala: So if your kid asks, well, why do we do this? I don't know. Maybe we can look it up. Maybe we can ask Tita. Maybe we can ask Tita's friend, and as Arab Americans I hate the term Arab American like this sucks like, I don't want to be an Arab American. I just want to be an Arab like Low Key. You know, you guys know how it is
Lina: Oh, yeah.
Tala: But it is. It is what we are right. And I think that, like being really authentic to that identity of not knowing everything, to recognize where parts of our culture have mixed with American culture is not wrong.
Lina: Yeah.
Tala: Got it
Lina: And I think also, it's what you're describing is
Lina: all of that takes time, and I think one of the things that we become accustomed to is like instant gratification. And I find like when we always ask a guest, and we'll ask you as well like the biggest lesson from one of the biggest things that I've gained from is like being able to be okay with something taking time and going through that journey and everything you're describing. It's only meaningful like when you do your thobe for your daughter. It's meaningful because you spent so much time
Lina: that you spend so much time investing in that piece, and she's going to be. It's gonna be so much more to her because she's going to spend so much time watching you do that. So I think you know, for our listeners as well. It's okay for it to take time, like what what you're describing like. No, like you said, it's not. You're not going to wake up tomorrow and know it all. But if you put in a little bit of time every single day or every single week.
Lina: slowly, but surely, you know, things will. Things will come to be
Tala: Yeah, and a note on time, like, I feel that for my mental health.
Tala: one of the best things that I do, that I notice. The most improvement is when I'm really intentional with my time.
Tala: And I know, in like the age of social media, we're really accustomed to scrolling or being really passive consumers of our media, and I try my best to be an active consumer of media as I can, and learning all of these things, and connecting authentically with our culture, requires us to consume long form. Content requires us to do reading
Tala: and engage with media in a more meaningful way, so choosing to take the time that you have to seek out a piece of knowledge and really interact with it
Tala: meaningfully, is is a choice right? And sometimes it helps to like kind of like. Take a step back and make that choice intentionally.
Amanne: Very well, said, very well, said, okay. I would love to ask you
Amanne: what is next in your Tetris journey. You're working on your daughter's Thobe. You hinted a little bit about what might be coming through on the publishing side of things. Do you have anything else stirring up in your tatreez journey?
Tala: Oh.
Tala: I like. I have a dream that I have all of my books in my library, and I have these like tatreez portraits up. And I have like 3 that I really want to do. I'm working on one that I kind of like, I'm asking my mom to finish. I was like, Mom, I'm doing. Mariams thobe, can you finish this? My library?
Amanne: Ha! Ha!
Tala: Do the other half, but it's like it had noon flowers, and underneath it's another one, and underneath is another one. It was like 2, and then, just to have those 3 stacked on top of each other is like pieces in my home. I met this dentist in Jordan, and she invited me to her house, and every single thing in her house is covered in. She did, by her hand, and she was like, I don't put anything in my house unless I do it by hand. And I was like, this is Low key me in like 60 years. I'm going to be like that
Amanne: The.
Tala: That woman who does nothing except sits on foot
Amanne: Goals, goals is that's too cute. Okay.
Amanne: before we let you go, we've had such a great time chatting with you, and we could probably chat a lot longer, but being mindful of time. So before we let you go, can you share with us any major life lessons that you have gained from Tetris
Tala: Okay, it's okay to undo work.
Tala: Undo the work before you finish more of it, and then you wish you undid it. When you made the 1st mistake, and I feel like that is like, you know, like the lost cost. Fallacy, I think, is what it's called
Amanne: Sun, cost fallacy.
Tala: Calls fallacy, you know. And I just like
Tala: really, really thinking and embracing the idea that there's no such thing as time lost when you are working on your arts.
Tala: even if I spent 2 weeks doing the project. And I said, This row is off, and it genuinely cannot be fixed. It messes up the whole project
Tala: that time is not lost. I spent it
Tala: practicing. I spent it reflecting. So that's kind of a big lesson that I learned from tatreez is to kind of like, have the mindset and the perspective, that there's no such thing as as wasted time when you're meaningfully connecting with your art and your identity.
Lina: Oh, I love that lesson that is so beautiful. And a lesson that I yeah, that's a good lesson for me.
Lina: I'm not gonna lie.
Lina: I love that I love that. Thank you
Amanne: I mean, I I do. I was gonna say I do that, but not like in a meaningful way. I do that because I'm crazy. So I like explanation of it. I was like, yes, beautiful, deep
Lina: Many of you
Amanne: Neurotic.
Tala: No, Mani, you can tell. You can tell. I can tell that you do that. You know why, when I opened your kit and I showed it to my mom. I was like it was so beautiful and everything was so well thought out. My mom was like, See Amani. She probably doesn't. If she messes up she's not like you. She does everything perfect, you can tell. And I was like, you can't tell
Amanne: Oh, my God, I love your mom. Thank you so much. Little compliment. That's so funny!
Lina: Amanda. She's telling you that you're crazy. She's telling you that you're crazy
Amanne: Compliment for me. I'm sorry I'm a Palestinian woman. That's a compliment
Tala: Thank you so much. How, by the beauty of your you are perfect
Amanne: This is 100% compliment
Lina: Tyler. Don't feed her, don't feed her too much. She doesn't need it. She doesn't need it.
Amanne: This was great. Tala, I love this. I can't wait for us to hang. Girl, bring your mom too.
Lina: Oh, my God! Oh, my goodness! Okay, well, Tyler, thank you so much. Before before you look, we let you go. Please tell us all the places that people can get in touch. Where can they order your books? Where can they follow your toll? Three's journey if you're sharing it somewhere? All of the places
Tala: Yeah. So good ring publishing on Instagram and on Tiktok my personal platforms, I on Instagram. I am Tala loves dot books, and then on Tiktok. I'm Tala talks too much because I talk too much on them, so feel free to not follow me there. If you don't want to hear me ranting all the time, but on Instagram, and
Tala: what's it? Called Tiktok good rain publishing, and it is Ww. Dot good rainpublishing.com
Lina: Perfect, perfect. Thank you so much, Tyler. This is such a joy
Tala: Thank you so much for having me
Amanne: It was great getting Tala finally on the podcast. Her and I are not that far from each other. We have not met yet, but it was great chatting, and it got me even more excited for us to connect. So we are going to be connecting soon. And, Lena, I think that means you should come out and come, hang out with us
Lina: Let's discuss. Let's discuss. I think we can make it happen. I think that'd be really fun. Actually, I was thinking about that earlier. I don't know why. Maybe maybe it was because we were interviewing her today. But I was thinking about that like, maybe I should plan a trip out there. I feel like
Amanne: Yeah.
Lina: Circles, and like, just hang out, do the Amani life
Amanne: Yes, come to the Manu life. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. But okay. So also I think we mentioned, I forgot it. Now I'm forgetting if we mentioned this before we recorded, or while we were recording. But I had actually connected with Tala through through Tiktok, and she was so sweet. She sent me her puzzle like her, it was like a 500 piece
Lina: Oh, I meant to ask about this during the podcast. Yeah, yeah, we
Amanne: Yes, okay, yeah. We were talking about it before, that's what it was. And I gave it to my nephew. He lost his absolute mind made his mom and dad do it with him, because obviously I was not going to do a puzzle. But he did the puzzle, and then I helped him glue it down. I got to frame it. I've I filmed it all. So I actually need to do a little like video
Lina: And post, the
Amanne: Video to show, because it was, it's really, really cute. And he had so much fun doing it. And he did it with his parents. So it was like a family thing. So yeah, I think all the stuff that she has is great. And there was like the threes included. You know, you see women in thwab, which is really cute. And just, I think again, talking back or going back to what we talked about with her on the podcast and you know how to
Amanne: make, or, I should say, make Palestine a part of children's lives at different ages. Like culture is such an easy entry point. And you know, I think that's that's 1 of the fun things about the books that she has and the puzzle that she that everyone should look at. It's really cute
Lina: Oh, I love that. Yeah. So a shout out to all of you to go check out good rain publishing. Get yourself a puzzle or a book, or both. And yeah, I'm really excited for what's to come for for Tala and good rain publishing. I think there's some exciting things happening
Amanne: Yeah, definitely definitely
Lina: Well, in the meantime, thank you so much again for listening to our episode of Tatreez talk. We want to hear about your tatreez journeys. So please please share your stories with us at tatreeztalk@gmail.com. And we might just have you on an upcoming episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite listening platform, and be sure to leave a 5 star review. You can follow me @linasthobe, Amanne @minamanne, and of course follow the pod @tatreeztalk. We will talk to you soon.
