S4E2 of Tatreez Talk: How to Care for Your Tatreez with Sara from Deerah
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When we think of tatreez, many of us picture something precious—tucked away, saved for special occasions, or kept in drawers like heirlooms too sacred to touch. But as Sara from @deerah.co reminds us in our recent Tatreez Talk episode, this wasn’t always the case.
Tatreez was once part of daily life. Women wore it as workwear, for religious ceremonies, for weddings, and for everyday errands. Each stitch held meaning, but it was never meant to be too fragile for the world. “Different thobes had different functions,” Sara shares. “Some were made for labor, others for special occasions. Tatreez lived with people—it wasn’t locked away.”
So why are we afraid to wear it now?
In our conversation, Sara helps us unpack this shift—how colonialism, displacement, and dispossession transformed our relationship with our traditional garments. Tatreez became a symbol of what we’ve lost, and in turn, we started treating it like something to preserve rather than live with.
But it can be both.
Sara, who works closely with refugee women to produce high-quality tatreez garments at Deerah, also offered practical wisdom on how to care for these pieces so they last—without needing to be hidden away:
Hand wash with cold water using gentle, natural detergent (olive oil soap works perfectly or dishwashing detergent as an alternative)
Lay flat to dry, away from direct sunlight
Store with care—use muslin cloth between garments to avoid snagging
Repair intentionally, even creatively—your stitches are part of its story
Spot treat stains—remember, stains happen on the fabric, not the embroidery. Use rubbing alcohol, mild bleach, or detergent carefully depending on the material
Water stains? No problem. These can usually be spot treated too
Dry cleaning may surprise you—if you must, ask for a delicate, no-solvent, no-starch treatment and make sure they don’t press it directly
Iron inside out to protect the embroidery from heat and friction
She reminds us: “They’re very valuable items, and we want to keep them around for as long as we can.”
These words are a gentle reminder that while tatreez deserves care and respect, it was also meant to be lived in—not just preserved.
If you’ve ever hesitated to wear your thobe or tatreez piece out of fear of damaging it, consider this your permission slip. Wear it, honor it, and care for it—because living with our culture is one way to ensure it survives.
🎧 Catch the full episode with Sara on Tatreez Talk, available on all major podcast platforms.
Episode Shownotes
SARA IS THE FOUNDER OF DEERAH; A SMALL TATREEZ DESIGN HOUSE THAT SHEDS LIGHT ON THE ART OF PALESTINIAN EMBROIDERY AND CHALLENGING DEEP-SEATED PREJUDICES AGAINST PALESTINIAN CULTURE (@DEERAH.CO).
In this episode, we dive into one of the most asked topics: how to properly wear and care for your tatreez—whether it’s something you embroidered yourself or a piece you’ve purchased and cherish.
With Sara’s expertise in crafting high-quality tatreez while ensuring fair wages for refugee women, she shares invaluable guidance on preserving these heirlooms. From choosing durable fabrics and threads to styling your tatreez with confidence and without fear of damage, this conversation is full of practical tips and heartfelt reflections on honoring the heritage behind every stitch.
You’ll hear about:
>> 3:03: Misconceptions about wearing tatreez in everyday life
>> 6:50: How can people confidently style their tatreez pieces without fear of damaging them
>> 10:46: What to ask and look for when sourcing and making a high quality tatreez piece
>> 15:28: Questions to ask when ordering online
>> 20:47: Considerations between machine and hand embroidered items
>> 22:42: Washing and storing your tatreez pieces
>> 26:36: Handling stains, dry cleaners, and ironing your tatreez pieces
>> 30:59: ASK to ensure who you’re buying from supports fair labor practices
>> 35:30: How to honor the work of the women who create these pieces
>> 42:36: Sara’s personal tatreez pieces with a special story behind it
>> 47:52: The ONE takeaway about the sourcing, caring, and wearing of your tatreez collection
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Transcript
Lina: Hi stitchers! Welcome to Tatreez Talk where we share conversations about Palestinian embroidery. I'm Lina here with my co-host Amani, chatting with talented embroiderers and artists sharing their stories, inspirations, and the cultural significance behind their work.
Amanne: On today's episode. We are chatting with Sara, our first ever guest who is the founder of Deerah, a small Palestinian Tatreez design house that sheds light on the art of Palestinian embroidery and challenging deep-seated prejudice against Palestinian culture. Welcome back to Tatreez talk, Sara
Sara: Hi! Thank you guys for having me again.
Sara: Oh, so exciting! I love talking to Sara. Yes, we should.
Sara: I see you
Amanne: We should also tell the listeners. Last summer, when Lina and I were in Jordan, we got to spend some time with Sara, and it was amazing. Sara and her mom. I love your mom.
Amanne: Yes, yes.
Sara: It was so much fun. Yeah, yeah.
Sara: I loved it honestly, seeing you guys and just chatting and like are in in, you know, in like in real life, kind of like felt like, yeah, I wish you could do it all the time.
Lina: Yeah.
Amanne: Same, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Amanne: I have to come back when my foot isn't broken. So.
Amanne: But I'm not in a wheelchair. So
Sara: It's all
Amanne: On the list. It's on the list. Have you been
Sara: Yeah, man is not the most you know, accessibility, friendly city
Sara: we saw. So I we didn't reach full potential for our men. But next time we'll do it
Lina: Oh, my goodness, 100%. So we're so excited to bring you back because we actually have kind of a more, a little different of an angle to take you on in terms of conversation. So we often get questions about how to properly wear and care for Tatreez, whether it's a piece that you've embroidered yourself, or it's 1 that you've purchased and cherish dearly. So we thought it'd be the perfect time to bring you back Sara to dive into this topic
Lina: because you have expertise in ensuring fair wages for refugee women who craft high quality emphasis on the high quality, and you also bring invaluable insight into how to care for these pieces while honoring their artistry and heritage. So we're really, really excited to dive into this general area of conversation with you today.
Sara: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's definitely I love this topic a lot. I get asked this a lot from customers and clients and friends.
Sara: and from just like my experience working with and with the importers and just creating these spaces. Yeah, I've just acquired a little bit of knowledge about how to care for them, because, as you said, they're like very valuable items, and we want to keep them around for as long as we can. And so yeah, there's definitely a lot to talk about
Amanne: Definitely. Yeah. And I think whether it's a piece that you have embroidered yourself, or a piece that you have purchased from a talented embroider like we all want to cherish and keep our tatreez for the next generation. So I think let's dive in. I think one of the 1st things we want to talk about are what are some of the misconceptions people have about wearing in everyday life? Because, I think you know.
Amanne: traditionally, women were wearing tatreez every single day. And now we're sometimes a little scared about that. So can you talk a little bit about the misconceptions around that
Sara: Yeah. So like you said traditionally, is really how the different I want to say function in our lives than it does today. So women would. Typically, you know, this is what they would wear every day. Different folks had different functions. Some of them were made, you know, to be worn every day to work in. Others were made for like bridal events. Some were made for special occasions for religious occasions, and it just depends on
Sara: what they what the what the need was, they created it, but all all of them were very obviously intricate and beautiful and well made.
Sara: But I guess nowadays it's it has a different, I want to say.
Sara: use. People usually wear it either for formal formal events when it comes to like a traditional soul, or to kind of represent their heritage in an event, or or in a place where they want to, you know, show the that they're Palestinian or great pay tribute to their heritage in whatever way.
Sara: So that's where it is right now. In our current times, I think there is a bit of a misconception about like and like putting it or wearing it in everyday wear, that it might be disrespectful. We've had a lot of conversations as well with people that are not Palestinian that want to wear it as well. And I think you guys also touched on this topic a lot. And so there's there is, I think a little bit of
Sara: you know. Maybe a misconception about like generally, I think, was just like a beautiful way of adorning clothing, and it is turned into a language that the women use to represent themselves and their lives and and they and they really elaborated on how beautifully to make it what it is today. You know something that you can actually study and learn and pass on.
Sara: But generally the clothing themselves were to serve to serve a purpose. And so I feel like, if today, in our day and age, if we have clothing that serves a purpose, and we are using it in the same manner, meaning that we have, you know, a function or something that we have to do. But at the same time we still want it to be beautiful and use our heritage and our, and
Sara: to make it, you know, something that's close to our heart, but also beautiful. Then I think that it makes sense. I don't think it's disrespectful, especially. Obviously there are some exceptions to this rule. But, generally speaking, if it's everyday wear, and you're adding Patrice to it. I don't see that there's a problem personally, and even if it is someone that's from outside the culture, so long as
Sara: they say that the and educate people, and you know, when asked about it, that it is Palestinian.
Sara: then I don't see that there's a problem within
Lina: Yeah, totally. I mean, well, I'm curious. It's so funny, because I'm actually wearing a T-shirt with on it.
Lina: And I wear it to the gym, and people like gawk at me. They're like, Oh, how could you possibly wear something and like, use it in the gym like, yeah, but it's a t-shirt like it's meant to be like. I made this T-shirt with that intention, and it's lasted. This is a T-shirt I'm not throwing away, you know, like if I get a hole in it or something, I'm going to mend it and use it because it has the on it. So maybe I guess a great follow up question to kind of this.
Lina: This conversation so far is, how can people confidently style their tatreez pieces without fear of damaging them?
Sara: So it definitely has to do with obviously, how well number one. The 1st thing that kind of comes to mind is layering. I mean the if it's hand embroidered, you don't want anything to kind of like rub against it too much. So if there's another fabric that's kind of layered on top, and it's kind of doing that wear and tear and causing, you know, the cotton to kind of like, get out of place, and maybe that will, you know, take down the I want to say longevity of your piece.
Sara: but as long as it's not, you're not layering anything on top of it. Then you should be fine. I mean the wearing it confidently from one person to the other kind of differs. Some people want to wear it with, you know, want to wear it traditionally. Other people want to wears and style it in a way that's kind of to their personal style. I've seen it all through the years, and I think every way that I've seen it is so beautiful, and not something that I would ever, you know, that would kind of come to mind.
Sara: I've seen a lot of people like style their with like where it's like coins and stuff like that, but with still like streetwear and stuff, and I think it's so cool. And other people kind of like tend to want to make it look a little bit more traditional, with like a modern day dress, but with
Sara: but in terms of like the piece itself. So long as the trees is not styled in a way where you have another layer kind of like rubbing against the trees. Then you're good again. If it's just a 1 time, if it's a high quality item, it shouldn't be a big deal, but if there's a lot of sweating or humidity and something rubbing against the itself, then that will probably wear off with time.
Sara: I think. Number one thing to think about when you think about durability of the pieces, to think about the quality. Obviously the quality of the the fabric itself, the quality of the threads, because there's there is low quality thread out there, especially here in the Middle East.
Sara: And then that will obviously the loose color. It will lose it, will they call it, or where it comes it starts. I'm not confident about what the English word is, but where it like starts where the cotton starts kind of like making, like the kind of small cotton balls, and it's no longer kind of like flat.
Sara: I can't hear you in many seconds.
Amanne: I was on mute. I was saying, Yeah, like, it starts like fraying. And like
Sara: Yes, so long as is, you can style it, and and I feel like any any way that you want, and wear it confidently so long as you don't have like, I said, other layers kind of like rubbing against it too much and obviously not too much sweating and stuff like that so maybe, Lena, the the gym at the gym is probably like a stretch, but so long as it like
Lina: Getting called out, live, wow!
Lina: Okay. Well, maybe maybe another tip. Also, because I will say, I do. I do think about how much tall trees is on the pieces that I wear the most frequently. So that is under consideration. You can play around a little bit with how much tall trees you're working with.
Sara: Yeah, yeah, 100%. No, you can. Definitely. I mean, you're talking about. If you want something to be with you for years
Lina: Yeah.
Amanne: Yeah.
Sara: I mean, yeah, that then that's what we're aiming for. But again, if you do these things like you have something else like on the on, you know, another layer, or or sweating, or whatever on the piece.
Sara: for, like a couple of times, it's not gonna it's not gonna change
Lina: Yeah.
Sara: Piece, but if you want it to be super durable, we're trying to do the maximum amount of time that you have your hand and border piece with you
Amanne: Yeah.
Amanne: And you know you, you kind of started talking a little bit about this. But I'm curious if you can share with listeners as far as if they are purchasing tatreez. How can they ensure that they are getting high quality? tatreez like, what should somebody look for? Because you spoke about the quality really helping with longevity
Sara: Yeah, so I guess when you're purchasing, there are a few questions that you can ask. The person that you're purchasing your subsidies from. And this will definitely make a lot of difference. Number one is a hundred percent fabric.
Sara: So if you have good quality fabric.
Sara: and obviously, if you're making it yourself, or you're purchasing from someone that does make sure that the fabric itself is durable, and that it's not low quality fabric. I mean, it's very difficult to get fabrics that don't have
Sara: polyester in them. Obviously. But polyester is good for so tatreez, if it's at a low percentage, if it's a mixed fabric. And so for Polyester, I think
Sara: I'm not gonna like shame, you know. Probably it's a shame because I think it actually makes the tatreez live longer, and it's much easier to embroider on.
Sara: And so a hundred percent fabric. If it's good quality fabric, then your piece is going to live long, and the little piece is going to be on there, and it's going to look beautiful. Obviously, if it's pre-treated. So you don't want that shrinkage
Sara: of the fabric, because when the fabric shrinks, then that is kind of like starts moving around, and the whole quality of your of the look is going to look different and thread, obviously. And unfortunately, I know that probably you know, we're looking for alternatives. But at the moment Dmc. Is like Number one in terms of I've even found some Dmc threads that are not the best depending on where you find where you purchase, and sometimes they. The color is kind of like
Sara: I've had one
Sara: order where I've had like the red wasn't good quality. But Dmc has always been kind of consistent. There are other brands out there that I found not to be as as good when you wash them they do wear out more
Sara: And then again, with
Sara: how how skilled the embroider is like when they pull out the the waste canvas. Sometimes there's a lot of snagging the fabric is kind of like, hold that. So it's you need to have a you have to have knowledge in pulling out the the waste canvas, which is actually a very, very
Sara: I like, I get very nervous when we're pulling out voice canvas for like a bridal dress or something, because we like it's a very intricate process, especially if it's like a very I want to say light fabric, or something like tall, or something that that can be easily torn.
Sara: Then you need to be very, very careful. One tip that I love doing when pulling out waste canvas which will ensure that the fabric itself doesn't snag at the when you're pulling it out is to soak the piece in water.
Sara: and then that will cause the waste canvas to loosen up a bit or become softer, and it's easier to pull it out.
Sara: Another thing is that when pulling out waste canvas, if this is for people that obviously do more than people that purchase. But maybe you can ask these questions to someone that you are purchasing from. If they do, do, these practices
Sara: is when they're pulling out. Waste time is to obviously try to not have their hands kind of like holding at the embroidery itself.
Sara: So that you're not kind of like pulling the embroidery or sweating on the embroidery to when you're holding in an embroidered piece
Sara: to fold it
Sara: to fold the areas that you're not embroidering inwards so that they're not affected by the a lot of the hand movements and the sweat that comes from the hands when you're embroidering. That's if it's like a very obviously, there's a lot of embroidery.
Sara: Then that's obviously something that you want to look for. And those are the pieces that you really want to pay a lot of attention to, because, again, take a lot of time or cost a lot of money. And you really want to make sure that you're getting something that's really high quality. So once you're those are things that we look for when we personally create hand embroidery. We have to take care of all those things.
Sara: and but for someone that wants to like strictly purchase, maybe it's fabric and is my embroider skilled
Sara: will they be careful when pulling out embroidery and waste canvas? And is the fabric durable?
Sara: And those are the number one things I think, to look for, plus the thread itself to be Dmc, because that's the best quality thread
Lina: So quick. Follow up question for people who are looking to buy because a lot of times, you know, especially if you're based in the West. And you're ordering online. The only thing you have really is like the product description. And the photos on the website.
Lina: So I like, I definitely look now. And this is, it's interesting because I only started doing this because I started practicing. I now look at what the fabrics are being used on an item before I purchase it, even if it's not tatreez related like literally Amanne and I were talking about Abayas yesterday like for Eid.
Lina: And they're all like 100% polyester. And it's just like it's, it's like, there's nothing special about polyester in my personal opinion, like, I think what you're calling out is very different. But for a piece that's like a hundred percent polyester it's like.
Lina: And also it's really expensive. Anyway, it's another topic for another day. So what? What should people be looking for when they are looking online? Because I know it's kind of difficult to assess. You know, one is the product description. But like, are there things that they can kind of keep an eye out for? Or is it something that they'll just have to ask the the company or small business that they're purchasing from
Sara: I think definitely have a conversation with the person you're purchasing from, because from my personal experience, and I think, like fabrics can be like a whole different episode like, I think this this is like a big topic. I don't want to take up too much of the time talking about this, but I think it's a really big thing. I've learned so much, and there's still so much to learn about fabrics. But even a hundred percent polyester can still be good. It just depends on where you're getting
Sara: where the sources and is the person you're purchasing from does. Do they know the difference
Sara: between a good quality. Polyester
Sara: fabric, or a very low quality, very cheap kind of like fabric, and there are very high quality polyester fabrics that I've seen and worked with.
Sara: But it just, and especially when it's in the Middle East. And specifically Jordan.
Sara: I want to say, 99% of all fabrics are almost all polyester.
Sara: It's very difficult to find something that isn't, or even if it is like like that 1%, or like that 5%. I want to say, if you want to find fabrics that aren't from that 100% polyester, you need to also find a good quality mixed fabric.
Sara: I found it very difficult at 1st when I was working with linens, to get a good quality quality linen, and even when I did find the good quality quality linen it was very difficult to work with, very, very hard to work with, because it wasn't pre-washed, had to pre-wash the whole thing, and even after that there was inconsistencies with it, with the
Sara: who with the manufacturers. And so
Sara: it's a big deal. So if you are buying from someone.
Sara: and it still says a hundred percent polyester. Ask them, you know, where what country is it coming from? Is it high quality? Does it have 2? Is it a 2 face? Fabric? Is there a breathability to it or not? These are questions that these are questions that and any person that works with, especially if they have, like a website and a brand and stuff should be able to answer. You want to look for breathability, good quality. Preferably.
Sara: I don't, wanna you know, call out like a whole country. But I mean there are good quality Chinese fabrics. And then there's low quality Chinese fabrics. But you want to look for something that's more.
Sara: I found Indonesian, Korean Indian that are better quality fabrics. There are good quality fabrics that come out of China, but the pricing is where you get what you pay for. If you get, if you pay more you'll get a higher tier of our fabric so definitely fabrics when you see it.
Sara: ask if you're you know you're not a hundred percent sure, if you want it or not.
Sara: The best case scenario is that you find
Sara: better sourced fabric. So when I was working with Meera Adnan, she did a wonderful job, because this is what she studied to find fabrics from around the world where she sourced. She got fabric that was made out of orange peel, which was like
Sara: amazing, and the bags that we have. The Vegan leather bags are made out of cactus.
Sara: And so it was amazing. She found the most amazing sources to get these really natural fabrics and materials that we created our collaboration with.
Sara: But again, it makes the tier of the you know of the projects themselves higher, and it's much harder to kind of move around the world.
Sara: So I understand when brands kind of like want to create pieces that are more accessible to people, and they use their, you know, whatever they can find, but still look for quality, and ask these questions about the fabrics before you buy
Amanne: Yeah, that's really cool. What you said about the orange peel fabric and the cactus vegan leather like that's really cool. And I think that's something that is very
Amanne: promising about. Fashion is like the innovation that we are going to see continue to come out of the industry. And you mentioned a little bit about accessibility, and I know we talked about it on the 1st episode when you were here. Obviously you offer both hand embroidery and machine embroidery products, you know, for every one of every you know, kind of different budget and style.
Amanne: I'm curious as far as like machine embroidery, because I think a lot of Palestinians, both at home and abroad, do own machine embroidered products as well like? Are there different considerations to take in when you're caring for machine embroidery versus hand embroidery
Sara: Yeah. So, machine embroidery again, it definitely depends on fabric. But machine embroidery generally across the board is very easy to care for. You can put it in the washing machine unless it has those studs.
Sara: you know, some machine embroidered items come with like the those are done with the hand glue, and so that will definitely fall out in the in the machine, embroidered and sorry in the washing machine. But if you do, if you don't have those studs on the on there. Then you should definitely be able to just pop it in the washing machine, but don't spin it like not on a high spin cycle, and
Sara: Then you should be good. No dryer, though, but definitely should be able to just like wash it like any other clothing. Item, machine embroidery is much more durable.
Sara: And they use fabrics that are more durable because they need to. Underneath those big big machines like a 15, had super aggressively like kind of like embroidering. So the machine, so the fabric itself needs to be very durable.
Sara: And so it will be able to, you know, live longer, obviously, and you can wash it just like any other piece of clothing
Lina: Well, so what about hand embroidery? What are your recommendations on washing? And then, also, I'm curious about storing. So like in between wear and in between washing, how would you recommend people store both machine and hand embroidered pieces
Sara: So for hand embroidered pieces. Obviously hand wash is best use cold temperatures, so you don't have those colors kind of coming out and dying the fabric
Sara: and so cold temperatures hand wash, and I prefer using olive oil, soap or olive oil soap shavings if you can. I get mine from city soap, but if you can get like a bar soap like and shave it, and then take those shavings, put it in cold water, and then wash your soap or item in it.
Sara: and then, after that also cauldrons. The cauldrons also helps with the to kind of like stay in place again for it not to a bit or like come out of place and so.
Sara: and then obviously hang to dry, or lay flat to dry. If you can on like a hang on like a clothing rack and lay it flat. If if it's a very heavily embroidered item, when when you soak it in water. It's gonna become super super heavy, and it's gonna snag at the seams. So if it's very heavy, soap, lay it flat on a on like a clothing rack, and if it's not too heavily embroidered, then you can hang to dry.
Sara: Don't put it in the sun too much. You don't want those colors to change over time. And
Sara: I think that's basically it. And then, if you have like, another option, for like or olive oil soap would be to be dishwashing soap
Sara: dishwashing so preferably not the ones that have lots tons of color in them, preferably like the clear ones. That can really clean your soap very well, and not, you know, not change the filters or affect it in any kind of way.
Sara: I prefer not to use detergents whatsoever on hand embroidery. They're very strong, and they're made to take out stains, and you can wash it like once if it was like worn like a party, and you know things got crazy. But but if you know you want to care for like everyday care.
Sara: then I prefer using very soft detergents, natural ingredients, cold rinse, and to be careful with it just generally it's going to stay with you for a very long time. If you care for it that way when washing it?
Sara: Don't rub the tatreez against each other. Try to be very gentle, especially with the areas that have. You want the trees not to be rubbed too much, neither with like hands or other fabrics, or whatever. Try to be gentle in those areas, maybe wipe it with your hand. If you see areas that you want to like clean from whether it's
Sara: you know a dust, or just naturally want to want the colors to pop out a little bit more. Then you want to just be very careful not to be rubbing it too much
Sara: after that, after it's dry if you want to store it, I think the best way to do it is like with a garment bag that
Sara: has breathability.
Sara: Keep it out of the sun, and you can hang it. But if you want, I think the best way is to fold it, fold it in the clothing bag, and then keep it, you know, stored somewhere where it's not humid, and there's no sun. That's the best way. I think, that you can store it.
Sara: Take it out every now and then, you know. Make sure that there's no smells or anything. There are obviously products that you can put inside to make sure that there's no mold or anything in the clothing itself. If you're not sure about the environment, or you live in a humid climate. But, generally speaking, you should be able to keep it for a very long time that way.
Sara: And I think that's yeah. That's basically if there's like a lot of maybe stains or something like that. Then that's a different story. If the tatreez itself doesn't usually stain, you, stain the fabric so you can spot clean those areas so like isolate that area.
Sara: Make sure that you're using like, maybe like a soft toothbrush or something like that, like a soft brush. And that's the area that you can treat with a detergent
Sara: or something to kind of like. Take that spot if there's like staining, or something from that spot, make sure when you're rinsing the detergent, especially if you're using something for stains.
Sara: To rinse that whole area without it contacting little trees itself.
Amanne: Hmm.
Sara: I've had, you know, emergencies where we've had to like use, even like bleach on areas. And there was. So it was sort of nerve wracking. But you isolate that area. Try to use whatever detergent that you need to get that stain out because you really want that piece. You don't want to lose it. You don't want that stain there. So even if you do have like a light colored one, and you want to use bleach, you can just make sure you rinse it very well, and you don't get that bleach to contact the tatreez itself.
Sara: Any other kind of stains that you get there. You can use alcohol to alcohol kind of tends to break down like if it's like ink or something like that, it breaks it down, and it doesn't affect the trees.
Amanne: That's interesting. So would you with the alcohol? Would you just kind of like soak it? Or would you do something similar where you're talking about like a soft brush and kind of gently rubbing that area with the soft brush
Sara: Alcohol, like usually rubbing alcohol, I usually kind of tend to spray, depending on how severe the situation is, but sometimes, like with the workshop. There's like pens around, and it's happened before where we've had, you know, like a stain and ink stain on so definitely with the alcohol. Make sure that you're spraying it on the area. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, you can soak the whole area and then rinse it out. There are some types of fabrics.
Sara: If you do soak it in water just on one area, it's gonna kind of give you that water stain afterwards.
Sara: You can soak the whole trees in it afterwards, like if you, if you Spot, treated an area, and then you feel like Oh, my God, it looks kind of different, or there's like a water stain. You still can wash the whole thing yourself.
Sara: Now in terms of like taking it to the dry cleaners or something like that. A lot of people ask me, can I take my piece to the dry cleaners? You can but make sure to tell them not to use heat, make sure to tell them not to put it in like a tumbling machine. It needs to be hand washed. It needs to be handled with care with their hands and not in a machine.
Sara: and also make sure when they're ironing. And this is something for someone that wants to iron at home, or wants to take it to, not to use steam
Amanne: Hmm.
Sara: Steam is not very good. When it comes to filters you can technically.
Sara: but preferably do it, you know, if they want to. If they want to do it at the dry cleaners they can, but not too much water. You know the high high steam, and if there's beating no steam at all.
Sara: And to you can. I prefer doing filters to to when we're ironing to do it inside out.
Sara: so turn it inside out iron and then turn it back in. So that's the best way again. Nothing. None of what I'm saying is like going to damage your piece if you do it, you know. We're just talking about the best way to preserve it, and for it to live longer, and for you not to have that, you know, to have to worry about maintaining it after, or you know, troubleshooting it
Amanne: Yeah, even as you're talking, I'm like thinking like, these are all great tips, too, even for non wearable. tatreez, like, I always like my pieces that I frame. I always wash them, I all. And exactly what you're talking about. I actually need to start washing them with Navy soap, though, because I love that very
Sara: Policy
Amanne: Process. But you know, same kind of concept like when you're ironing, you do it from the back. And all those things. I think these are like really, really good tips, for just like caring for your in general. Again, whether it's wearable or something you frame, or it's a pillowcase like whatever you are saying, these are like really, really good tips on how to preserve all of that.
Amanne: And I know you know we touched on this a little bit earlier. But I think that this is definitely a topic that still deserves a lot of a lot of love and a lot of conversation around, and I know people are constantly asking, especially when they are purchasing tatreez. But you know we talked a little bit about like how people could look for
Amanne: high quality, tatreez. But what should people look for when they are buying tatreez to really ensure that they're supporting fair labor practices
Sara: I think the best thing to do is to ask a lot of questions like, Ask the person that you're buying from. All the questions that you you feel like will bring you peace of mind.
Sara: and I don't believe that there's too many questions to ask. When it comes to this topic, they should be able to answer all of your questions, and you know you're not asking too much. I think I love it. When people ask me these questions. I think I feel the care.
Sara: and that this person really wants to know. You know, that the embroiders are cured for, and that the process in itself is, you know, is a good process, and I think that this brings me a lot of joy as someone that makes the police, so you shouldn't feel like as a buyer that you're asking too much.
Sara: So ask them what their process is. Who do they work with
Sara: in terms of embroidery like where the women are from.
Sara: And I think the number one thing to ask is how they compensate them. And it's okay to ask them that because you're paying them, you're you know you're paying them for something that's you know. It's a project like making a
Sara: piece is a project like when you go into like a meeting to do a project, it's gonna take months. So you need to know all the details like, who are who's going to be doing this? How are we paying them? Are they being paid per piece? Are they being paid for their time, or are they being paid for a little bit, you know, which is like for ball of thread.
Sara: I think, in my opinion, paying embroiderers for ball thread is the worst mechanism in the world. I think it's very unfair. And unfortunately, that's how most people work when it comes to authorities, especially in the Middle East.
Sara: And so I want to say when we when like the to ask those questions, you know. And just imagine that you're going into it kind of like with this person facilitating, creating something for you like you're working in a in a like in a business
Sara: setting. So okay, we're going into this. We're creating something that's gonna take us months. Let's talk about who's going to be working here? Who's how are you paying them? And don't feel shy to ask those questions they should be able to answer you, and if they don't.
Sara: or hesitate, or make you feel uncomfortable, then that's not a good place
Sara: to buy yourself. They should be able to answer all these questions, they should be happy to answer these questions. For you. And and because it's a it's a community. I mean, if someone asked me these these questions. That means that they have my embroiders at heart, people that I love and I work with. So
Sara: it's not something that should be. You know, anyone should be gatekeeping or kind of like not talking about.
Sara: I think it should be an open process
Sara: as a facilitator, as a brand. I'm only, you know, opening up a channel for people to be able to use my brand as a way to create something for themselves, especially if it's customization. So at the end of the day, it's your piece. It's it's your time, it's your money.
Sara: and for me I should be able to answer all those questions. So ask. Ask every question that you have, and and if the if the answers don't sound right, then you need to do a little bit more research about how how you know this piece is being created, and don't be shy to do it
Sara: again. Questions to ask are where the importers are from? Do they work from home? Are they being compensated per piece or per ball of thread, or for their time, for their time and for per piece
Sara: should be good. I mean, the the person that's creating the space obviously is not gonna tell you how much you know it costs them. No brands gonna do that. But if they're paying them per piece or for their time, that's good. That's really good. If they're paying them per ball of thread, and they're being honest with you and telling you that they're paying them per ball of bread. I don't think that's a fair mechanism.
Lina: These are such good tips, I mean, even for me, I'm like this is amazing to hear, and also to be kind of encouraged to ask, and when you say it from that perspective, as the person behind the scenes as well like, you're you're working with these women, and this gives you like.
Lina: Piece, that the person who is buying from you cares about your process and about like they stand in line with your values as a business owner that that really puts it into perspective as well. So then, let's say you find someone, and they're wonderful, and they answer all your questions, and you decide to go forward with it. How do you honor the work of the woman that made the piece? What gives you joy when you see your customers wearing and styling the pieces that they buy from you.
Sara: Though. One thing that I love in this whole process is when the the customer or the person buying the piece wants to thank the embroiderers personally, whether it's through a note or sending them a voice message
Sara: or sending a message through me a lot of the time they'll send me like a video like, Tell, you know, whoever made this, that you know I love it. And so I'll show them the images, or I'll show them the videos that the client sends me that they tell me to show the importers, and or, you know, translate. If it's like English, translate the
Sara: the messages to them. And I think that that's to them.
Sara: Yeah, it makes it makes all the difference, you know, because this is something that they've been working on for months and months and months like, imagine you're working on a project for like 3, 4 months, and then you don't get to see the end result. You know you want to see the end result. You want to see that the person that you did this for loves it and that they wore it. They're happy with your work.
Sara: You know. No edits, no comments, you know. That's like the best feeling, and so they feel very, very fulfilled all the time. Whenever I, whenever this is this happens, whenever they get that feedback
Sara: that drives them all the time, and obviously
Sara: acknowledging their time and their efforts and and their knowledge, because a lot of the time embroiders, they're not given the you know the prop. You know. They're they're not given
Sara: value, you know, for their work, and it's not considered something like a craft or a skill that they hold.
Sara: They don't feel that way. People don't make them feel that way. And so it's great to when they see that their items are being worn all around the world, and people tell them that this is super, you know, great quality, beautiful. I love it. It's wonderful, so great feedback to the embroiderers, and they feel like they have a very great skill and a craft that's actually a value.
Sara: And so I think that's, you know, just like the feedback giving feedback. I'm not one that used to give feedback, like I'm too shy like I wouldn't. I just say Thank you, and just like, Go away. But then, when I started seeing like the positive impact of what really? You know of what feedback does to the person that made something.
Sara: Now, it's like changed my personal perspective, and I love it when customers do that, too. So feedback and appreciation, obviously and personalized messages or personalized notes is always the best
Amanne: That like warms my heart as you're saying that I'm like, Oh, my God! I love that like I can. Yeah, I mean, as somebody who does embroider myself like I. I can see how special it would be for these women to get that like kind of like personal. Thank you, or even just being able to like. See the finished product on the client, how happy it makes them. So. Yeah, if you guys buy tatreez.
Amanne: please, please please take Sara's suggestion to heart, because I think that's so beautiful and so special. And I also feel like it's like a just like
Amanne: a way to like, connect even deeper with the that's being made. And you know our culture. And you know this connection of people who are Palestinians, who are refugees like still living in the Arab world, and how they can connect with us, you know, through in the diaspora. So that's a really really beautiful sentiment. Thank you for
Sara: Yeah. And I just wanna say, I think this whole conversation generally just I love that we're we're what we're doing is
Sara: and what the tatreez does is kind of take us back to the practices of like.
Sara: what clothing really means, and what I mean, what clothing really means is like. It's a craft, it's an art.
Sara: and it's not like if you buy an item out of the Mall, you never know who made that or where, probably where it was made, or how it was made, or what the conditions were of the people that made them. You're just buying it because it looks good, and you're probably going to change it in a few months or years.
Sara: But I think the whole community of the tatreez. The fact that you can actually connect to the person that made it. You can thank them, and you know who they are, and you know what their lives kind of like, where you can like connect to that person to whatever level that you you can.
Sara: And I think it's so beautiful like it takes away a lot of what the fashion industry has tried to, you know, impose on us where it's like
Sara: flipping fast. You don't know who made it. You have no idea how much of this was made, and you don't know what the conditions were, or what the fabric is, or how it's made, and everything's kind of like gatekeep, and no one knows anything about anything. You're just wearing it because it's like a trend, or or like a fashion trend, or whatever. But I think the practice the whole idea of the place kind of like silences, all of that out.
Sara: And it's a whole beautiful environment where you know everyone's connected. And and the pieces are, you know, made especially for you, or it's very specific, and the people making them are, you know, are making them out of a heritage, and are, you know, it has so much more meaning. And the fact that you can connect to the maker
Sara: is is is really beautiful, I think, and and and even caring for it like even this tips that we're giving for caring for you can do for every piece of clothing. Obviously
Sara: Because we don't want to keep flipping. You know the clothes. You can still care and and maintain your clothes so that it is environmentally safer for us to be able to, you know, to to practice these practices with our garments, even if they don't have to please
Amanne: Yeah, even as again as you're, you're talking. And you're saying this, I'm like in my head, I'm thinking, I'm like, Yeah, this is also a way to like, have these women be a part of your story, you know, when you stitch your own tatreez, whether it's a tube or something that you frame.
Amanne: or a decorative piece like you are telling your story in some way. And now you have these women who are a part of your story because they are helping you stitch this. And again, really reflecting and telling whether it's like something that you're customizing or just something that is already existing. Maybe on Deerah's website, but you see it, and you fall in love with it, and you connect with it. So
Amanne: this is like just beautiful. Give me all the feels like I love it. I love it so much. So one question kind of taking it a little bit more personal. You know, we've talked a lot about, and how to care for it, and these women that are creating it, and what these pieces mean both to the buyer as well as the person who's helping create it.
Amanne: Curious for you, Sara, do you have a personal tatreez piece that has, like some kind of special story behind it?
Sara: Yeah, I do. I have. So I own 2 thobes, one of them that I bought from one of our embroiders that we then recreated. And it's on the website. And so I originally bought it from her when I was going to get, you know, some trees from from one of our embroiders a few years back, and she was like, I have this huge bag of old thobes.
Sara: Do you want to see them? So I was like, Yeah, let's see them. And I was there with my mom and me and my mom were ended up being there for, like around, I want to say, 2 to 3 h. We were supposed to just pick up something and then leave.
Sara: But then, you know, yeah, that we were like swimming in the trees and all the trees, and like just, you know, bits and pieces. And I saw this soap, and I was like, Oh, my God!
Sara: And it had those little little patterns on the she called them, which I learned from her, which is like the kind of patchwork that they used to do on the on the opening of the of the soap.
Sara: And it was so beautiful like that detail itself, like I was like, this is so beautiful. I've never seen anything like that in my life. It was so well done.
Sara: very intricate like the tatreez itself was so packed like. There's no
Sara: spaces in that I was so impressed. I was like, how is this in like a black bag somewhere like, no, this is so beautiful, and it had menagerie
Sara: them, and actually were beautiful like stacked one on top of the other. There's no spaces whatsoever. Beautiful, fantastic quality. So I was like, this is amazing. I want this, and it had like small sonata with like the small, and she had like flowers with the sonata. And I'm like this is so cute. I want it now put it in a bag. I don't care how much it costs, I want it.
Sara: And so that was that was my, that was, I think the 1st soap that I purchased, and then we created a soap for myself that we also have on the on the website, too. When we were creating one of the one of the collections.
Sara: and it was. It was quite the learning process for me, because I really wanted to make it. And so with a waste canvas that wasn't 11 count. I wanted it smaller. I wanted it more packed with. And so, like the embroider was like, Okay, you want to kill me right like you want to kill my eyes like I just want it to be, you know, really full with and for it to be really intricate and beautiful. She's like, okay, got it.
Sara: And so I was like, Okay, this is going to take like a few months whatever. And but it took a lot of time. It was like almost like a year
Sara: and because it was so small and she was taking her time. It was just one person, and she was older.
Sara: and but I really wanted to see her process. Every time I'd visit I'd see where we're where we're at, you know, and it made me learn so much patience and give. You know it was one of those things where it built up my appreciation for embroidery and kind of really wanted me to change
Sara: the way that they were being paid from learning how much I had to wait for this soap, like every time I'd see it. I'm like, Okay, I can see the birds here. Okay, we're getting somewhere, you know. You really have to wait and be patient. And and then when you have it, it's really beautiful. And and it's and it's, you know, it's just something that you know, that you're going to keep for life. But it was a learning process for me, because all of this time I still didn't know
Sara: a lot about fabrics, and I think I don't know if I talked to you lean about this, but I picked the wrong fabric all this work.
Sara: and I picked the wrong fabric. I wish I had known more about fabrics back then
Sara: I would have probably had my soap in a really, much, much more beautiful fabric. But I still love it. I think it's very beautiful. I'm going to keep it for life, but everything, you know I've learned so for now I'm not making any more soaps for me until I know, until I know know what I want, because you're designing things all the time, and you don't know what you want.
Sara: But those are really 2 important folks to me, because one of them taught me a lot about how tatreez is devalued, and the other taught me patience, and about the process itself, about totters, and how the women are being paid fairly for their time.
Sara: What beautiful story! So which dresses are these on the website?
Lina: Or is this? Or is this? Is that secret knowledge
Sara: No, no, it's not secret. You're just gonna put me on. My brain isn't working. I'm fast, not. My brain isn't working, and I forgot the names of the folks
Lina: You can tell us. You can tell us afterwards. Don't worry. We can
Sara: Okay, okay, yeah. Don't real time.
Lina: Yeah, yeah, full time that makes makes people go to the website and actually go peruse as well. So this is actually, it's a secret marketing technique
Sara: Okay, not so secret anymore.
Lina: Oh, I love these! These are such a beautiful story, Sara. Thank you so much for coming and joining us. This is a perfect conversation. I guess maybe one last question, is there anything that you want our listeners to like really take with them from this? From this conversation? Maybe something about. You know something that you wish that they knew about preserving to trees, or caring for tatreez, or how tatreez is made, and how to make it ethically. If you had to say one thing, what would it be
Sara: I think.
Sara: I think just generally I just love the idea of the you know, of caring for and caring for it, and you know, caring for the piece itself, but also caring for the art, caring for the people behind the art, for the artisans. The whole process respecting the process respecting the heritage in that way, knowing that in order for the, for the.
Sara: for the art of the to continue for these artisans to continue doing what they're doing. You have to pay them well, and you have to pay respect to their time and their efforts also. Once you receive the piece in order for it to be sustained, and for it to be durable, and to last, and to keep that you know very special piece with you all of your life, and even pass it on afterwards
Sara: to care for it is a really beautiful thing. It really teaches us so many lessons that I think that we've kind of like
Sara: unlearned in this fast paced, you know, way of fashion in life.
Sara: To really slow down and think more about the pieces that we're wearing the practices that we bring into our lives and the people that are behind all of this, whether it's the history, the people that are currently creating it, or how we're going to sustain it in the future. I think it's very important and makes us very more mindful. And to really go back to our roots, and how our ancestors really did create these pieces and sustain them too.
Lina: Beautiful! Thank you so much, Sara.
Sara: Thank you. Thank you guys so much
Amanne: This was great. We always appreciate your time and your words, and the tatreez that you put out into the world. So thank you so much for all the work that you do, and for taking the time to chat with us and our listeners
Sara: Of course, anytime
Amanne: Amazing. We'll definitely have you back on, because I know we have so much more to talk about. But again, thank you so much, Sara, and we will definitely talk to you soon.
Lina: I absolutely adore talking to Sara. So when actually, Imani, you were the one with the idea to bring her on for this particular topic I was like, yes, I love talking to Sara. And honestly, it's like this particular topic, and like specifically what it gives me so much joy, because literally a lot of my presentations when I talk about is
Lina: there's been a huge issue at 1948. Besides everything else, like, obviously, it's a huge issue. But, like in 1948, the biggest thing for me, from my perspective, like when I look at the history of is that that was literally the moment the wearer was separated from the maker. And that's literally the entire foundation of what I do with Lina's Thobe and like. Why, I'm so passionate about thobe making is because
Lina: the original tradition is that you're making it for yourself. It's not like you like. When you remove that experience, it, it removes the meaning and the symbolism and the connection to all the people in your life and
Lina: and things like that. So what Sara's doing is so important, like this type of work where you're really taking into consideration the person who's making the piece. It is part of the wear and care of the piece, because
Lina: you're keeping the essence of the person who made it with it and with you. And I think that's so valuable. And and times are different now, and not everyone necessarily, you know, wants to, or has the time, or has interest in making something that they will wear. But if you're conscious and thinking about the meaning behind that piece, and really taking care of it, so that it lasts long a long time, and you and you kind of maintain it and keep it
Lina: for a very, very for many, many years, hopefully and for many generations, hopefully, that takes us back to that tradition that I feel like we've kind of lost as a society, and that we're starting to bring back. And I think that's so powerful. I just I love that concept so much
Amanne: Yeah, I mean, I told Sara when we stopped recording. But so I got really teary eyed when she was talking about, you know, sending the notes to the women, and how excited they are, and like what it means to them. Because I think to your point, it's like, Yeah, there is this disconnect between the Creator and the wearer, and being able to kind of like, connect the 2 literally just through like a simple thank you.
Lina: Yeah.
Amanne: Like so powerful and so beautiful and like I'm just like, Oh, my God! I don't even have something like I don't even have a custom made Deerah something. But I'm like now I want one just so that I can like connect with these women who are creating it. But I think it is really powerful, and you know something that
Amanne: Sara said that I kind of forgot to bring up while we were talking to her, because there's so much I was so excited. But you know she had mentioned the fact that a lot of times these embroiders don't get the love that they deserve or the recognition. And it's not seen as a quote, unquote skill. And I think that goes to a larger conversation that is not just within Palestinian embroidery, but
Amanne: you know it is a larger societal conversation. When there are things that are seen as quote unquote women's work.
Amanne: They are often devalued, and Palestinian embroidery has always traditionally been, quote unquote woman's work. And I think that
Amanne: Palestinians, and quite frankly, even Palestinian men like literally the other night I was at Suhoor fest, and I had my thobe on one of my handmade thobes, and this ammo when I was getting iftah. This ammo was asking me about my thobe and where it was from, and like he definitely appreciated it. But he's also Palestinian.
Amanne: Yeah, it's called
Amanne: mother. So I'm sure he understands the work that goes into it. But it is, I think, very, very important to also just reiterate the fact that things that are again quote unquote woman's work do not always get the recognition that they should. And again, like these little acts of just like, if you are buying something that is created, some that is created by someone else like kind of showing your appreciation, for that
Amanne: clearly, clearly goes a very, very long way. So I love that Sara had mentioned that, and I think I highly encourage anyone who buys the tatreez of any kind to just thank the person who created it, because you never know like how meaningful that thank you, will be to them
Lina: Yeah. And also it goes hand in hand with this concept evaluation. Right? Like
Lina: Because the person who's not making it is buying it. They don't want like you, just you will never understand. And we talk about this all the time on.
Lina: You never understand how much work goes into it until you do it yourself, and
Amanne: Damn!
Lina: I think like this is a really small way of just understanding a little bit about what goes behind those scenes like just asking those questions from the onset like, who's going to be doing the work? How are they being paid? Where are they working from? Those are all part of us as a community, as a broader community to values where it should be valued, especially because we still live in this very capitalist
Lina: world. And and yeah, all of it is just so connected. And I love. I think Sara mentioned this, too. Like, is able to bring all of these things together in a way that that can maybe change it, and and returned us back to how our ancestors did it, which was the the best way. I think
Amanne: Definitely well, I hope that everyone found as much value as we found in this episode, because I definitely learned a lot of things. So again. Thank you so much for listening to Tatreez Talk as always. We want to hear about your own tatreez journey, so please share your stories with us at tatreeztalk@gmail.com. And we might have you on an upcoming episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite listening platform
Amanne: and be sure to leave a 5 star review. You can follow me @minamanne and Lina @linasthobe, and of course. You could follow the podcast
Amanne: @tatreeztalk. We'll talk to you soon.
