S4E12 of Tatreez Talk: Fluent in Tatreez with Joanna Barakat from @thetatreezcircle
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What does it mean to carry a tradition you didn’t inherit directly—but still feel deeply rooted in? This week on Tatreez Talk, we sit down with Joanna Barakat, a Palestinian artist, author, and founder of The Tatreez Circle, whose new book Narrative Threads explores exactly that. From embroidered village dresses to revolutionary poster art, Joanna takes us on a journey through the evolving story of Palestinian embroidery in contemporary art—and why preserving it today is more urgent than ever.
Grab your copy here!
Episode Shownotes
JOANNA BARAKAT IS AN ARTIST, FOUNDER OF THE TATREEZ CIRCLE, AND NOW AUTHOR (@joanna.barakat.art; @thetatreezcircle). Joanna shares how tatreez became central to her identity—even though neither of her Palestinian grandmothers wore embroidered dresses. Her connection grew not from proximity, but from a deep sense of belonging and curiosity about the meaning behind the stitches.
Frustrated by the lack of resources on Palestinian embroidery in contemporary art, Joanna wrote Narrative Threads to document the artists who have used tatreez as a visual language of resistance, memory, and liberation. From village dress motifs to the revolutionary art of the 1960s, and now to global stitchers on Instagram, she traces how tatreez continues to evolve as a powerful tool for storytelling—especially in the face of erasure.
Joanna reminds us that cultural preservation is not a luxury—it’s a necessity. Her book is a tribute to the artists who continue to create in displacement and under siege.
Order your copy of Narrative Threads and help amplify the brilliance of Palestinian art and identity.
You’ll hear about:
>> 1:01: Joanna’s connection to Palestine
>> 4:53: Introduction to art and incorporating tatreez into her art
>> 9:02: Heart Strings and what it led to
>> 15:39: Beginning @thetatreezcircle
>> 25:39: The significance of contemporary artists using tatreez
>> 34:54: Narrative Threads by Joanna Barakat
>> 47:34: Life lessons from tatreez
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Links Mentioned
>> Joanna’s Website
>> Order your copy of Narrative Threads here
Transcript
Lina: Hi stitchers! Welcome to Tatreez talk, where we share conversations about Palestine embroidery. I'm Lina here with my co-host Amanne, chatting with talented embroiders and artists sharing their stories, inspirations, and the cultural significance behind their work.
Amanne: On today's episode. We are chatting with Joanna, an artist, founder of the Tatreez Circle. And now an author. Welcome to Tatreez Talk, Joanna, we're so excited to have you.
Joanna: Hi! Thank you so much for having me on.
Lina: Oh, Joanna, it's going to be such an incredible conversation! We're so excited for our listeners. Amani and I were very lucky to meet Joanna in real life. And so we were.
Amanne: Oh!
Lina: I know, I know. And we knew a year ago that we wanted to have her on the podcast and now it's just like the perfect time with her upcoming book. So we can't wait to get into all of the things, Joanna. We always like to start off by asking our guests to learn a little bit more about you and your family's connection to Palestine. Would you mind sharing some.
Joanna: Yeah, sure. So my family is originally from Khalil and Jerusalem. My dad was born in Khalil, and when he was a baby after 1948, his family were displaced to Jerusalem.
Joanna: and he grew up in the old city in Jerusalem, and the old city actually plays quite a significant role in our family, because that's where my dad also started his business. And on my mom's side my data was born in Jerusalem. And then, during the British mandate period. She was displaced to Jordan. After she got married he moved back to Jerusalem.
Joanna: and then, during the Nakba she had a few kids by that time, and then the Nakba happened, and they got displaced again back to Jordan, to Karak, and when she raised her family there
Joanna: my grandfather died quite young, and and she had 11 children, and she raised them in as if that household was in Jerusalem. So they weren't allowed to speak with a Jordanian dialect. It was only the Jerusalemite dialect that was spoken in the house, the food, everything. It was as if she never left Jerusalem.
Joanna: And so my mom was born in cut, and when she married my dad they moved back. I mean he was living in Jerusalem at the time, went there, met her, moved back to. She moved to Jerusalem. And that's where my older brother and I were born, and then we moved to Los Angeles. When I was maybe a toddler around one and a half, 2 years old.
Joanna: And and yeah, that's that's our connection to Palestine, or at least our our rootedness.
Joanna: Yeah. And so what was you were born in? Falasteen grew up in la, but you grew up going back and forth right? What was that like for you?
Joanna: I went to Palestine only a couple times.
Joanna: Okay, it was.
Joanna: It was a shock going through the Jisr, bridge between between Jordan and Palestine at that time. It's not, I mean now it's pretty horrible. It's a humiliating, horrible experience. But back then, in the eighties and nineties it was really horrible.
Joanna: And I I remember that that really clearly.
Joanna: And then, as in my college days, I went back a lot more often I made a film when I was at central Saint Martin's about the imposed borders. That was the time when the wall was being built. So I went back a few times for filming, and then again when I was doing my master's. It was about Palestinian Street art. So I went back a few times then to to take photos and do research.
Joanna: and so so after that, after the uni days, I I still went back just to visit family and to be there really. And now that I've got kids. I've taken them a couple of times to our last time was right before Covid. When we went.
Amanne: That's so beautiful that you're able to do that with them. And you've always been an artist, as you mentioned, art is, and we know, Lena, and I know from talking to you that art is a big part of your family as well. Can you share with us? Not just your journey as an artist. But when did the tatreez come into play in your artistry journey as well.
Joanna: Sure. And yeah, artist. Being an artist, has always been part of my life. And art. My dad is also an artist. He's an abstract artist, and he's an antiquities dealer. So we grew up in an environment surrounded by art always, and culture, and and our family days out were to museums and galleries. And
Joanna: so tatreez came into my life later. Actually, after I got married
Joanna: in our household, though we had my dad had collected some old
Joanna: antique Palestinian embroidered cushions from Khalil. He had a few pieces, and my mom had some cushions that my khalto had stitched for us.
Joanna: But they were hidden away in the closet. They weren't really on displays, didn't play a big role in our household growing up. So after I got married my husband's family, he comes from a falla7i family. So at our wedding his aunts were in wearing the thobe and they still wear it till today.
Joanna: That's when embroidery really became part of
Joanna: my household, and we have embroidery hanging on the walls that his sister has done and his mom has done
Joanna: once it
Joanna: it was in 2017 when I started to embroider, and that was when I did my painting heartstrings.
Joanna: I had done a couple of self portraits where I painted the embroidery on me, but for this one I really wanted it to be more visceral. I wanted
Joanna: the viewer to be able to feel the stitches on the skin. So for those who might not know heartstrings is, it's an acrylic painting. It's a self portrait, and I'm stitching the motif onto my chest.
Joanna: And in order to do that I had to learn how to stitch, and I I didn't know anything about Cross Stitch at the time. My sister-in-law. She's a brilliant embroider, and she was over at the time, and I asked her, I was like, you know, will you show me? And she was always cross stitching something she always had some project she was working on, and I asked her to teach me how to cross stitch, and she taught me the basics and how to count
Joanna: the stitches and the motif, and how to start, how to like, end the thread and start a new one. All the basics.
Joanna: and anytime I include anything in a painting, it's going to lead me towards researching it. And the more I researched Palestinian embroidery and read about the history and understood the context the more I fell in love with it. For me I also have a media background. So
Joanna: the idea of motifs being a storytelling device, a language in itself an indigenous language is, was really fascinating for me. That's what really captivated me, and it helped me include it in other works.
Joanna: adding another layer of meaning and depth to my paintings.
Lina: We love heartstrings and shout out to Ghada, we love her too.
Amanne: Her work is.
Lina: Oh, yeah.
Amanne: Gorgeous.
Lina: Oh, seen it firsthand. Yeah.
Amanne: Ghana.
Joanna: Yeah, you should see what she's working on now. She's working on this massive piece. It can. It's could easily fit over a king size bed.
Joanna: Oh, you have to, and it's rows of embroidery definitely. When it's done it'll.
Lina: For sure. That's.
Amanne: I like you.
Joanna: My mentor, so.
Lina: I love that I love that. And actually, can we also like learn more about heartstrings, because it's such a gorgeous painting like.
Amanne: Yeah.
Lina: Where did you get the inspiration of the concept of, you know, stitching on yourself? And how did you choose the motif and tell us more, because it's such a beautiful piece.
Joanna: Sure. Well, heartstrings. The idea behind heartstrings was, it was about
Joanna: reclaiming my story as a Palestinian. I feel like, especially Palestinians in diaspora, more so, maybe even outside of the Arab countries in the Us. And Canada and Europe, we all have that same struggle with.
Joanna: It's not just struggle with identity, but it's that sense of belonging. I don't belong here. I don't belong there, and I was fed up with that. I was like, you know what I belong everywhere, and this is who I am, you know, and that's really what the paintings about. The idea of the stitching on the skin. I was inspired by tattoos. And how people
Joanna: you could they tell their story through tattoos similar to how historically Palestinian women did on their thobes with their motifs. You know, you've got these different things that were symbolic of moments in your life, or for whatever reason, and some of them could be decorative.
Joanna: And I like that idea of marking your skin. So there was this, this
Joanna: new sense of being that I wanted to document, and I wanted to document it on my skin literally. And that's that's why she's stitching her skin. And
Joanna: you know, there's those things when we're navigating those challenges with our identity and the sense of belonging. There's what do you tell people? What do you hide from people? That's why she's wearing the headscarf, for example, to hide certain things about herself, but then her skin is bare at the same time. So there's that vulnerability and that openness.
Joanna: And there's poppies in the background kind of representing. You know what poppies grow wild, and I like that idea of this new wild
Joanna: awakening, this.
Joanna: This in that sense of belonging in that new story.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: So that's that's really what heart springs is all about.
Amanne: I love hearing the background and the inspiration from you. Because that's actually
Amanne: I'm pretty. Yeah, that's the 1st piece I ever saw from you, and that's kind of what brought you to my world. And I was like, this is so cool. It was actually, I remember seeing it and thinking for the 1st time, like.
Amanne: I want to know how to stitch on other materials. And that's where I 1st started even thinking about stitching on photography from seeing you do it on your painting with your canvas, and I was like, that is so dope like I loved it. And then again hearing the inspiration behind. It is just so much more. It just makes it so much more powerful when it was already so powerful, just visually, so. Thank you for sharing that I love hearing.
Joanna: Thank you. Yeah. And and and learning the embroidery, and the deeper I got in with the I felt more that sense of belonging.
Amanne: Yeah, because.
Joanna: My Arabic. I understand Arabic, and I can speak, but it's broken Arabic, and I've been made fun of and.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: Those scars stay with you.
Amanne: Yep.
Joanna: So. So when I discovered, and being able to to be fluent in this new language, that also was very much part of what that painting is about.
Amanne: Oh, I love love that that is very beautifully, said and I definitely feel that because my Arabic has been made fun of, too, but you know it's fine. I'm fluent in.
Joanna: Exactly.
Amanne: So I'm curious, like, you know, because, like I said, that was the 1st piece I've the 1st piece of your work that I saw that like drew me to you, and I'm curious how that work of bringing your your existing artistry, and then bringing in this new medium of how did that start changing your art? And like, what did that open up for you beyond kind of that personal identity connection.
Joanna: Well it. It opened up more avenues of exploration in in looking at
Joanna: how I approach the medium. So there's works where it's painting, and there's embroidery on the painting. There's works where it's just embroidery. So how do I explain an idea
Joanna: through only embroidery? So this brings us back to the language right? So I have a piece called Water Spring, and it's about the water restrictions in Palestine, and it's only embroidery. And there are other pieces where where I I've got them mixed. So what happens for me? My process is.
Joanna: I get an idea, or there's something I want to talk about in response to something right? And then it needs to haunt me. It really needs to kind of eat at me and bug me because I'll write down ideas, but if it doesn't
Joanna: follow me everywhere, then I don't. I don't make the piece right. And and while it's haunting me, I'm picturing it, the images start coming, and sometimes there's sometimes there isn't, not. Every work doesn't work in every piece.
Joanna: And
Joanna: and yeah, and then I think, well, what is the right application for embroidery in this work for amulet I did couching embroidery. It felt more appropriate for that piece.
Joanna: I don't know if I answered your question.
Amanne: No, no, that's all.
Amanne: Totally makes sense that totally makes sense so shifting a little bit. I want to talk about the work that you started doing kind of more publicly in the Tatreez world. Specifically, I think, starting with the tatreez circle which I think anyone listening to this podcast is definitely familiar and 100% probably already following the tatreez circle. But
Amanne: I'd love to hear a little bit about how that came to be, because it. It does play a huge role in our overall Tatreez community which is really exciting.
Joanna: It's wild to hear that.
Joanna: yeah. When I 1st started the To 3 Circle the Instagram page, I had no idea that one to tatreez would become so popular, because at the time I started it it still wasn't as popular, and and that there would be such a following. And it's wonderful. So it really started with a phone call from a friend of mine in Dubai Dina Yazbek.
Joanna: and she called me asking me. This was in 2018. So after I did hard strings, and I'd done a few pieces with embroidery, I'd already began researching it and understanding its history. So she calls me. And at that time her daughter was really young. And she goes, Joanna, do you know anything about?
Joanna: And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I know, I know quite a bit about Tatreez, and she's like, you know, because I'm really worried that when my daughter is our age Tatreez will become irrelevant. It'll be something of the past.
Joanna: and people won't know how to make it anymore. It's just.
Joanna: It'll be one of those things that are just an artifact.
Joanna: And I told her, well, you know, and she asked me if I was willing to teach her how to embroider, and the idea of hosting a workshop at her house came up. So that was my 1st workshop was at her house.
Joanna: and it was very rough, but it had the same format of my workshops today which is
Joanna: presentation on the history, and I explained to her, I said, more important than learning to cross stitch because you can learn to cross stitch from a Youtube video. What's really important is understanding the context and understanding the history. Because this is what gives the meaning is understanding what it is and why it's important.
Amanne: Yes.
Joanna: And and then so so we did that workshop, and she started to organize a few other workshops in Dubai, and I started teaching at Tishkeel, in Dubai, and then at 4 21 in Abu Dhabi. So I needed an Instagram page to advertise the workshop, so people would know when when I had a workshop, and as I was
Joanna: researching and learning new things about, I wanted a space where I can share that where I can nerd out on and and share that with everyone else.
Joanna: So so I asked her, I was like, Well, I want to do this Instagram Page. What do you think she's like, yeah, let's you should definitely do it, and you can call it the Tatreez Circle. I was like the tatreez circle she got. She was part of this.
Joanna: a community, a group that called the cookbook circle in Dubai and cause Dina is very much in the food space. She's a food recipe creator. And she's that's really her passion is in the food space.
Joanna: And so it's like, Yeah, sure, the Tatreez Circle that sounds great. You know it. It had a good ring to it. It made sense for what I was doing, and I wasn't that like I said I didn't realize that it would grow so much.
Joanna: And it was I started posting things, and slowly and very organically it started growing
Joanna: alongside with people becoming more interested in. Covid, of course, is, when more than ever people were looking for ways to connect. They were looking for, not just connection to Palestine, but connection to each other as well.
Joanna: and the tatreez circle is also a great way for people to reach me directly and ask questions, and I was doing things like Motif Monday.
Amanne: My room does.
Joanna: Do you remember that.
Amanne: Yes, I when I 1st started my Tatreez journey, before I could get my hands on books like I was literally saving those like motif Monday posts. They were great.
Joanna: Hard to find motifs. Then.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: We needed the books and and finding things in English as well. I remember there were some, some photocopied pages that were scanned and put up online from, I think, Nabil's book. I still have those saved in a folder. So
Joanna: and so, yeah, so that's how the circle came about. And and yeah, so also in the workshops, I was the what set my workshop apart was. I also spoke about artists.
Amanne: The way different artists.
Joanna: Approach the tatreez, contemporary artists incorporating it into their artwork. Because I felt that
Joanna: you understand the history of tatreez. You understand how it changes in form and meaning after 1948. But what about the symbolism around tatreez?
Joanna: That we all like. For example, I didn't grow up with in my household yet. I'm so connected to it. Why
Joanna: does it have that hold on us, and it's tied to that symbolism, and it's tied to its connection to Palestinian identity as a signifier of Palestinian identity. So that was also really important to share and and to explain to people.
Amanne: Yeah, I hear that.
Lina: So powerful. Yeah. And I also, it's funny as you're talking about this whole journey. I don't know if you're noticing. But Manny and I are both like nodding. Really.
Lina: remember, we remember that's not
Lina: 100. Everything you're saying is like, Wow, it's it's so crazy how things have changed, and how in 2020.
Amanne: Such a short time.
Lina: Yeah, but 2025. You have people doing all over the world. And now, like.
Joanna: It's amazing.
Lina: Yeah, there's so many pages for them to find inspiration to learn from each other. I wanted to ask also, before we kind of moved on from the tatreez circle around. Kind of the community. How would you define the community that's behind the tatreez circle? And how has that played a role in shaping it into what it is today.
Joanna: I feel like a lot of there's.
Joanna: it's, it's 2 part. There's the online community and the in person community. So the online community, I mean for me personally, cause I'm a 1 man band with the circle.
Lina: Yeah, we we hear you. We hear you.
Joanna: So so for me it was a way, not just for people to access me, but for me to access other practitioners and artists and people in the space which made it easier to learn more and to make some amazing friends present, company included. And but this was all because we were able to connect through
Joanna: this online community. And in person it was really through the workshops. I made some amazing friends through my workshop
Joanna: and through tatreez circles get having these meetups where people like minded people can come together and stitch together and share stories and talk and connect, because that's what it comes down to at the end of the day part of our interest in, and a lot of people are coming to learn about Palestine, Palestinian, and not Palestinian, is because they're they're
Joanna: they're trying to connect, not just to the culture and heritage, but to each other. And I think that's super powerful.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: Always, okay, for connection.
Amanne: Yeah, I mean, I always say that my favorite part of Tatreez has become the community. You know whether it's in person or online like you said, there's
Amanne: there's just so much that you can learn from each other. So many people like Lena and I would have probably never met if it wasn't for the tatreez we would have never met you and connected with you if it wasn't for tatreez. And I think that's like so beautiful again when you're connecting with other Palestinians all over the world. But even when you're connecting with non-Palestinians, who are, you know, our allies and then become friends. So I will say we host
Amanne: gatherings here in the Bay area, and we certainly named them after the tatreez circle. And it's really cool now, like kind of hearing the backstory where the name came from in the history and the fact that now, like literally all over the world, Palestinians are hosting tatreez circles everywhere.
Joanna: I know it's.
Amanne: So cool.
Joanna: That's wild. It's amazing. Yeah. So Dina gets full credit.
Joanna: Have the name that does circle? Yeah.
Amanne: Thank you, Dina. We love you, we appreciate you.
Amanne: Oh, my God, okay. So, continuing on on this journey, we want to talk a little bit more about kind of like the spaces you've made in your workshop to talk about contemporary artists in Tatreez, because that's also related to your book that we will also talk about. But can you tell us a little bit more about that? Why is that? Or why has that been so important for you to include in your workshops and your talkings.
Joanna: Yeah, I think it's really important for people to know why it matters so. Of course, the historical context and understanding the purpose is important. But I think people need to also understand why this symbolism exists. So in the 19 sixties.
Joanna: when the PLO was founded, they realized that they needed to use art and culture and heritage as a way of forming this
Joanna: Palestinian national consciousness. And this is where the Liberation Art movement in Palestine came out. So Ismail Shamood was the founder and director of the Department of Arts and National Culture, for the PLO. And his wife, Tamil Akhal was also part of that
Joanna: she was more. She played more the role with culture and heritage. And this is when they were doing traveling exhibitions around the world where they would take swab and put them on display.
Joanna: They also
Joanna: at that time, and you see that a lot in the artwork coming out of the 19 seventies where you have all of these symbols that we associate with Palestine now not only, and the woman in the embroidered dress
Joanna: which became a metaphor for Palestine and the motherland, but you also the olive tree, the cactus, the key. All of these different symbols came out of that art movement, and that symbolism is still used today, and it's still relevant. But contemporary artists now have also, just like
Joanna: the dress and tatreez has evolved, so has the artwork and the concepts in the artwork. So you see a lot of contemporary artists who include tatreez in their artwork because they're referencing indigeneity. They're referencing different concepts around time and memory and identity, even body politics.
Joanna: So you still have the symbolism of Palestine as this motherland. And that's very emotive. It's very emotional for Palestinians to look at.
Joanna: And I think for a lot of people when they see embroidery on a cushion, and they get that.
Joanna: Oh, there's something there that feels like home for me. They have to be able to understand that link and the impact and the important role that art plays
Joanna: in that. And I haven't heard this conversation in the sphere right? And we talk a lot about the history, and we talk a lot about how the dresses were worn and what the different motifs mean. But we don't really talk about how this symbolism was created and how it's maintained.
Amanne: Yeah.
Amanne: yeah, I like, the what you're saying is like, you know, we do talk a lot about the past and the history and the tradition. It's really important to know that, and to remember that, and to acknowledge that. And I like the idea, though, that
Amanne: that these continues to evolve as art continues to evolve, and seeing that.
Joanna: Absolutely.
Amanne: Is exciting, really exciting.
Joanna: And this is these are the culture creators, and you know they always say that history is written by the winners, or whatever sure, maybe the history and textbooks. But the real history is in the artwork. This is what's documenting culture. And I think it's so important. This documentation of the art, of the embroidery of all of the things that are being created now.
Joanna: And this isn't just.
Joanna: you know, famous art, or you know the kind of art. You see in galleries even the art and the embroidery people are making, and they create their instagrams. This is why I love sharing these things on the circle is because it's documenting.
Lina: I love that that is so powerful and really like makes you think about art in a very different way, and also recognize that is part of art like that is definitely
Lina: yeah, it's definitely a conversation that Manny and I have had on and off the podcast.
Joanna: Look at Imani's background.
Lina: Yeah, I literally was telling her earlier, because today was the 1st day I see the new background with her photo tatreez art.
Joanna: I love it.
Lina: Yeah.
Amanne: Thank you, you know, like I said definitely, one of the inspirations was your work.
Amanne: So.
Lina: Came prepared.
Lina: I love
Lina: no, I love this, and this is such a like you said it's such an important conversation to have that isn't really being had right now, I'm curious. If you wouldn't mind sharing some artists or works like specific arts artwork that you've seen. That's really influenced
Lina: kind of. You're thinking about mixed media you're thinking about and its role in art and documenting. What's happening in life in general, for Palestinians are any like? Does anything come up for you? When I asked that kind of question.
Joanna: I think, of indigenous artists, and not necessarily Palestinian artists. But I think of artists like Jeffrey Gibson, for example, and the kind of work he makes when it comes to Palestinian artists. Gosh! I mean everybody in the book.
Amanne: Consecutive.
Joanna: A fan of all the artists that are in the book. They are so amazing. I am constantly inspired. When I see
Joanna: gosh! Ever I mean, it's it's hard not to be inspired by by people using embroidery in in ways that sometimes you're like. Oh, I didn't even know you can make that. And Deborah Mullins is in the book. He's actually one of the.
Joanna: I think she might be the only artist that's not Palestinian or part Palestinian in the book. She's English, and she went on, she's passed now. She passed away in 2020, but her artwork is all couching embroidery. She was so inspired by a trip that she went on to Bethlehem.
Joanna: and I remember seeing her work and being like, I need to learn, couching embroidery. This is not just beautiful, but the way that she used it to also convey messages and to express ideas. She had a piece called Borders.
Joanna: and she used the borders that you would find on the and those borders. She made a piece where it's just a bunch of borders and beautifully couched borders. And there's and it represents the different borders in Palestine. These imposed borders of the occupation in Palestine, with a meandering black
Joanna: pouched line throughout, representing the wall, and how it just makes no sense going all the way through the west bank. So I thought, Wow, this is this, is it? This is exactly I love that I loved how she used the tatreez in a way that communicated these ideas, but was still honoring the heritage, was still
Joanna: using old techniques that that she learned on her trip in Bethlehem. It was just so wonderful. So that's that's 1 example. And then there's artists like, for example, Larissa Sensor, who has has
Joanna: touches of the tatreez in her films. I'm I mean, here's a little tidbit about me. I'm a big sci-fi nerd. I love her films. I think they're absolutely brilliant.
Joanna: She makes these dystopian style films about Palestine, and conceptually they're they're really they're brilliant. But she she
Joanna: approaches tatreez almost like this Remnant of Palestine. This artifact of Palestine, but when she brings it into her films she makes it so relevant.
Joanna: You know, it becomes part of the conversation, and a lot of people were like. We didn't realize that she used in her films. But once. You see it, it's all over, you know. She'll like for an example in Nation estate. There's the tatreez on the costume, there's the tatreez, the the tile of the
Joanna: the marble floor has a big star motif on it. It's just it's all over, and you see it in her other films, too. So this sort of subtle use of in such a conceptual and intelligent way, and I could go on and on about so many artists. This is, yeah. I don't think we have enough time in.
Lina: Well that way. Well, that's why you wrote a book right.
Joanna: Yes, exactly exactly
Joanna: so. Maybe this is a very natural, easy, obvious transition. Tell us all about the book narrative threads. We're so excited.
Joanna: Yeah. So narrative threads. It's all about Palestinian embroidery and contemporary art.
Joanna: It's published by Saki books. It'll be out in July super exciting. And then in the Us. It'll be out in October.
Joanna: Oh, boy, where to begin with this. So there are 24 artist chapters in the introduction. I also talk about the history of tatreez and the history of tatreez and art. And I talk a lot about other artists. There's a lot of amazing artists that are mentioned also in the introduction. And there's
Joanna: there's 3 essays, one by Wafa Ghnaim, you all know really well, her essay is about tatreez as ceremony. So, looking at the ethical stewardship that needs to be done in order to prevent misinformation or appropriation. It's such an important essay when it comes to how we
Joanna: transmit stories and and information relating to tatreez and Dr. Tina Sherwell has an essay in the book. It's looking at the thobe as the metaphor of the motherland a little bit about what I described earlier with the Liberation Art movement.
Joanna: And there's another essay by Rachel Dedman, and I thought it would be very interesting to bring in a curator's perspective. It's when a curator is curating an exhibition. And Rachel Dedman did these
Joanna: beautiful exhibitions on Palestinian embroidery.
Joanna: and in the exhibition she had contemporary art. So I wanted to understand how that worked into the story she was telling with her exhibition. So that's what that essay is about. It's about her her inclusion of contemporary art that has Palestinian embroidery in the material power exhibition
Joanna: that she did. And then there's the 24 artist chapters about different artists
Joanna: and the the role the Palestinian embroidery plays in their artwork.
Amanne: How did you kind of come to connect with a lot of these artists? Because you have artists from all over the world all over the global diaspora, you know. And while they're all contemporary artists, they have different styles, too. So I'm curious about the connections that you made and how those connections came to be.
Joanna: I slid into their DMs. It was a lot of bugging and calling and emailing and DMing. Instagram was actually great, because most of the artists are on Instagram.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: It was really easy to connect to people directly that way. With a lot of the artists. I knew I knew many of them, and there were people I was. I was already in contact with. There were just a few where it required a little bit of chasing a little bit of.
Joanna: Just persistent bothering until they gave in. And but it it's it was over the past 5 years. It started when I 1st got the idea to write the book.
Joanna: I thought, if I'm going to do this book, I have to have Nabil Hanani and Sliman Mansour in it, you know. So on this last trip that I mentioned earlier to Palestine, I I
Joanna: met with them. But it's actually kind of a funny story. Nabil and Nani's son had coordinated this meetup, and I was supposed to meet them at Nabil Anani's house in Ramallah. Sliman and Nabil Anani were waiting for me, and I was in Jerusalem.
Joanna: and I was with a lot of family and friends, and we were all on one big tour bus.
Joanna: and it was quite an ordeal getting from Jerusalem to Ramallah with so many people. Eventually, 5 h later, I got there and they were so upset I was getting phone calls. Annoyed. He's upset. You've been. It's been hours. Where are you? I'm like, I'm coming. Please tell them to wait. I promise that it's gonna be fine just all. I'm nearly there. I finally arrive, and I've got
Joanna: but who? I have looked up to my whole life.
Joanna: And they were sitting there
Joanna: really kind of annoyed and upset. I made them wait for understandably so, because I had made them wait for so long, and I sat down, and I explained who I was and what I was doing and about. And once the conversation switched to Palestinian embroidery, they both lit up.
Joanna: and the whole the vibe changed, and we just started talking, and it was there I can't remember for a while. I was there for at least an hour, and we were just they were telling me all about what they did and and how they, you know the research they did for the books and all their work they did with different associations, and and putting the embroidery and its importance
Joanna: and the artwork. And it was just such a wonderful conversation.
Joanna: and once I knew that they were happy to be part of the book. That's when I started reaching out to all the other artists.
Joanna: But I had to. I still, till now I feel so embarrassed for making them wait for so long. And yeah. And then I started reaching out to all these other artists. And now, once the book, now the book is at the printer. It's getting ready. It's being published. And now there are so many new artists that I'm discovering.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: So many, so there might be a volume 2 coming.
Amanne: It.
Joanna: I feel like also over the past years, with this and
Joanna: new interest in Palestinian embroidery, a lot of artists have
Joanna: started incorporating it in their work, and it's been really exciting to see that. Not just
Joanna: plain embroidery, just not just embroidery like the tatreez, but
Joanna: contemporary artists, and even very established contemporary artists, who never did anything with, are now starting to feel inspired, and and approach it in new and exciting ways.
Amanne: Yeah, I personally love seeing the tatreez incorporated in mixed medium art and seeing how people take a traditional art form and make it untraditional. I guess you would say you know. But I would definitely be excited about a volume, too. So
Joanna: We'll we'll be curious, media. So you see it in photography.
Amanne: Yeah.
Amanne: That's the exactly.
Joanna: Sculpture. Now you see it in all different mediums.
Amanne: Totally, totally, totally.
Joanna: It is really exciting. It's exciting to see how people reinterpret it. There is another artist.
Joanna: who who was doing stuff with embroidery. And she's doing like futuristic things that have to do with
Joanna: in coding and all kinds of stuff that engineering. And and you're like, Oh, you know, this is amazing how you can take something that for a lot of people is stuck very much in heritage and in the past. And she's taking it way into the future. And that's what I love seeing. I love seeing people just really
Joanna: reinventing tatreez in their artwork. So of course, it has a place in heritage, and and it has a place there, but just like in every art form, and in every in fashion and art, there is an evolution. So it's nice to see where tatreez is going and that it still holds impact and symbolism and can carry concepts and ideas.
Amanne: Okay.
Lina: So good, so good, so where can everyone find this book?
Lina: Tell us all the places.
Joanna: You should be able to find the book anywhere. Books are sold hopefully.
Amanne: Ha-ha!
Joanna: You can order it, of course, directly from Saki books. The publisher. You can order it on Amazon, although I would definitely order it from Saki.
Lina: Yes, yes, we will post.
Lina: We'll post some of the links in the yeah.
Amanne: No, it's for sure, for sure.
Amanne: Definitely. Ask your local bookstores to order it. Yeah, yeah.
Joanna: Absolutely ask your local bookstores to order it definitely.
Amanne: Okay, if I what's the like? What's 1? i'm sure there's a million takeaways from this book. But what's 1 takeaway that you really want readers of the book to walk away with.
Joanna: And the impact of the embroidery in Palestinian art. I mean, you see so many different examples of how it can be used to communicate different concepts and different ideas, I mean for me. I started off with Palestinian embroidery as a language, and that was a big focus of mine. And then it became actually, we can use Palestinian embroidery for connection
Joanna: and and creating and fostering this sense of connection. And and for a lot of these artists they are using Palestinian embroidery in their work. To communicate so many different themes and ideas, so
Joanna: embroidery historically, was a tool of communication in the way that it communicated this localized identity on the thobe. And now it's still in the artwork, being used as this tool of communication to communicate these concepts and ideas.
Amanne: Love like me and Lena are both like cheesing so hard and just. Not
Amanne: this whole conversation is so exciting to hear, and you put everything so eloquently that I think a lot of us feel in our hearts. So thank you for that. I think that should get everyone very excited to read the book and.
Joanna: I hope so.
Amanne: I think it should, because I'm very excited.
Joanna: I've got. I've got so many close friends who are like we can't wait to get your book and put it on our coffee table
Joanna: like, please read it, read it first.st
Amanne: That way. I.
Joanna: Coffee table. I love that. I'm so flattered. But please read the book.
Amanne: Yes, definitely. And you have so many amazing artists. Kiki, who's been on the podcast before I was so excited to see you include her. And I mentioned earlier Chris Gazala, who's someone I grew up with here in the Bay area. So it's really dope just seeing like this generation of Palestinian artists all over the world and being recognized. So thank you for doing that work, because writing a book is not easy, as you said, 5 years in the making. So thank.
Joanna: No, not easy at all. And and for Kiki and Chris it was really important for me to include street art.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: Because you see it in street art and street art is such an expression of of the people, you know, it's just, and it's and it's public. It's very different to kind of more the highbrow art that you only.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: Galleries and museums. So that was really important, that those were 2 artists that were top of my list to include.
Amanne: I'm so glad I'm so so glad. Okay, we could continue talk to you forever. But we want to be mindful. Obviously, you're around the world over overseas, and it's late for you. But before we let you go we do want to ask, are there any major life lessons that you have gained from the tatreez.
Joanna: Oh, my goodness, that's a whole podcast. In itself.
Joanna: And life lessons from tatreez. So many, I mean, we've already spoken a lot about connection and community
Joanna: has taught this racing, crazy mind to slow down, because when I don't, I make mistakes, and I'm not one of those. Oh, if you make a mistake here. You can make a mistake there and then. It's not. No, no, no, I'm an un-picker. I have to unpick everything, crying, unpicking. Yeah. So it really forces you to slow down.
Joanna: embrace the process, let go of a little bit of perfectionism.
Joanna: Patience, for sure is a lesson. It's really interesting. How
Joanna: how it puts you in a state of flow, you know. I'm sure there is a brain frequency change that happens.
Joanna: and it gave my art new meaning.
Joanna: adding it to my artwork was was a major shift for me, and and I think I think there's an element of self-love that came when from when I 1st started learning to. Now I've always been a very loud.
Joanna: proud Palestinian, but being able to participate in a practice that is such a beautiful manifestation of our culture, especially as women. I think that
Joanna: that really it feels so good.
Amanne: Yeah.
Joanna: And I think that's probably one of the biggest lessons for me.
Lina: That is so beautiful. Thank you so much, Joanna. It's been such a pleasure chatting with you. We will obviously put all of the links for your book in the show notes anywhere else that people can go to keep up to date with all that you're doing. Maybe when the volume 2 begins like, Where can people find you?
Joanna: They can find me at the Tatreez circle. They can find me also. My other Instagram is Joanna Barakat art, and that's focused more on my artwork than just on the tatreez. And you have a website, Joanna, art.
Joanna: Where else can you find me? I mean, that's that those those are the the main places perfect, and the book narrative threads.
Amanne: Of course, narrative threads. We will share the links for everyone to be able to order their own copy and order copy for their friends, and of course, to follow Joanna and hear all about the work that she's doing. And again, with the Tatreez Circle, Joanna does a really great job of showcasing and sharing the community as well, so highly encourage you to follow.
Amanne: to learn, and also connect with other Tatreezers. So thank you again, Joanna, we appreciate you joining us.
Joanna: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. So bye.
Amanne: I have you do.
Lina: It's so good to see another book about come into the world. We need more.
Amanne: More written by Palestinian.
Amanne: Yes, yes, but I'm really excited to see kind of this intersection that she's exploring with this book, you know, thinking about Tatreez and contemporary art, and.
Lina: I mean, we've had a lot of different contemporary artists on the podcast and every time. We have a conversation with them. It's absolutely incredible, and mind blowing to see like, just get a glimpse of what's going on in their brain and how they create. That's it's really, really beautiful. I love what you said about this documenting. You know.
Amanne: Yeah, no. I agree. I'm so I say, this a lot, but I am very in awe and inspired by all the different artists in our community. It's really beautiful to see, and it's exciting when they are highlighted. So I'm glad that Joanna is able to do that through this book. I also really loved what she talked about as like
Amanne: Tatreez being a language. We talk about that a lot. We talk about the storytelling behind Tatreez, and I think, as Palestinian diaspora you know, we can relate about.
Amanne: Look, my Arabic is not great. I get by. I clearly last year was able to manage myself into an er room into the er in Jordan with my Arabic. So you know, we were fine.
Amanne: But yeah, I hear her when she was like, you know, my Arabic's kind of broken people have made fun of me. It definitely. Those scars stay. But with Tatreez I'm fluent in tatreez, and I'm like. Yes, I love that. I resonate with that. I feel that. And I think that for all of us, no matter where you are in the world, especially if you're Palestinian. The tatreez is this language that we all share.
Amanne: and it's really, honestly, even people who don't practice Tatreez, who are Palestinian. It's still a language that we share, because
Amanne: even if they're not practicing the tatreez, oftentimes they still recognize it as being Palestinian. So it's just great, always great to have these conversations. We now need to continue to pester Joanna about Volume 2. Obviously Volume one took her 5 years, so it might take a while, but we will pester, slash, support her into doing another one.
Lina: We love it. We can't wait to see more.
Amanne: Yes. Well, thank you so much for listening to Tatreez Talk. Of course we want to hear about your tatreez journey. Share your stories with us at tatreeztalk@gmail.com. And we might have you on an upcoming episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite listening platform, and be sure to leave a 5 star review. You can follow me @minamanne and Lina @linasthobe, and of course you can follow the pod @tatreeztalk. We'll talk to you soon.
