S3E11 of Tatreez Talk: Fashioning Palestine’s Identity with Natalie
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Natalie is more than a guest—she’s a force. A fashion designer, illustrator, and professor at Birzeit University, she’s reclaiming the story of Palestinian fashion with intention and truth.
In this episode, she reminds us: “We can bring back what was.”
Before 1948, Palestine was a thriving hub of fabric and clothing production—a legacy erased from most histories, but not from Natalie’s vision.
She’s building a future rooted in resistance, heritage, and land. Her students aren’t just learning fashion—they’re stitching together a revival.
We’re deeply honored to hold this conversation. Natalie’s words are a call to remember, to reimagine, and to reclaim.
P.s Her graphic design and illustration work is also IN-CRED-I-BLE. Let’s just say I’m picking her brain to see what we can create together…stay tuned!
Episode Shownotes
NATALIE TAHHAN, A FASHION DESIGNER, ILLUSTRATOR AND INSTRUCTOR AT BIRZEIT UNIVERSITY (@natalietahhanofficial/@ntstudi0). Natalie shares her unique life journey, growing up in Doha after being born in Jerusalem, and the deep-rooted pull that eventually led her to return to Palestine.
She opens up about the difficult decision to return in 2015 to protect her Jerusalem ID, facing financial and legal challenges to preserve her connection to home. That year-long stay reignited her desire to live and create in Palestine—experiencing the land through seasonal shifts and rediscovering what rooted her.
Natalie also reflects on launching her design work in Jerusalem, driven by the belief that Palestinian-made products should come from the heart of Palestine itself. This same commitment fuels her work as a fashion instructor at Birzeit University, where she co-developed an accredited diploma program that integrates tatreez into the curriculum. Her goal: to nurture a new generation of Palestinian designers equipped to build a thriving local fashion industry rooted in heritage.
Learn more at natalietahhan.com.
You’ll hear about:
>> 0:53: Natalie sets roots in Palestine
>> 11:14: Life as a Jerusalemite
>> 17:36: Starting (and learning about) tatreez
>> 22:07: Building a fashion business around tatreez
>> 35:04: Translating traditional tatreez into contemporary fashion
>> 41:15: Status of the Natalie Tahhan fashion label
>> 49:43: Tatreez takes Natalie to Birzeit University
>> 1:02:05: Inspiring tatreez in fashion student stories
>> 1:09:45: What’s next for Natalie
>> 1:12:30: Life lesson from tatreez
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Transcript
Amanne: Hi stitchers! Welcome to Tatreez talk, where we share conversations about Palestinian embroidery. I'm Amanne here with my co-host, Lina, chatting with talented embroiderers and artists sharing their stories, inspirations, and the cultural significance behind their work.
Lina: On today's episode. We are chatting with Natalie Tahhan, a fashion designer, illustrator, and instructor at Bridget University. Welcome to Tatreez Talk. Natalie.
Natalie: Hi, guys, I'm excited to be here.
Amanne: We're excited to have you so, Natalie. We always like to kick off by asking people about them and their family's connection to Palestine, but obviously we should mention that you are currently based in Palestine. So can you tell us a little bit about? You know your life today and your family's history in Palestine?
Natalie: Actually, I kind of have an interesting connection because I was born here. But then, at the age of 6, we moved to Doha Qatar and I pretty much grew up there. Went to, you know, school high school, and graduated there. I had this very
Natalie: large period of my life, where I was constantly wanting to come back here, or what we would come back here in the summers, and have, like, you know, the most amazing time. And you'd see the family. And just really like this, this aspect or this period in my life where it's really it takes you away from being here makes you really appreciate being here.
Natalie: and the small little things that you maybe people don't really pay too much attention to when you come back. You really cherish those little things like just nature. Like. Just you know how beautiful the land is here. The trees, all of these things. The food as well like just, you know, not, you know, like the things that you get in the summer, like fruit trees or things like that. All of those things. I felt like growing up. I constantly felt like I wanted to move back.
Natalie: and even when I went to university I studied abroad as well, and after that I went back to Qatar, and I worked as well there for several years, and I always had this feeling of that. I've always wanted to come back. I've always felt that I wanted to come back and settle here.
Natalie: And so actually, the majority of my family doesn't live in Palestine or Jerusalem at the moment some extended family does. But my family is actually still in Qatar. There's only me and my younger sister, and we actually came together here, and we came back in 2015,
Natalie: and I remember during that time I took a year of leave from my job, I took an unpaid leave. I had to take it because I was basically yeah, it was my id was basically gonna get taken away from me. So then
Natalie: the other option was like never being able to come back. And for me, that wasn't really an option. So we had to come back and basically show proof of residency here in Jerusalem because my Id was my residency was under threat, and so I moved back in 2015, and I said, I'll move back for a year, and it took me, you know, like it was very difficult decision to do that, because I'm sure you know, like being here, especially in Jerusalem, is extremely expensive. You have to pay quite a lot of taxes.
Natalie: and for me to kind of like, jump all those hurdles just to make sure that I could always come back here.
Natalie: So I'm obviously like, I hold a temporary Jordanian passport and a Jerusalem id. And so when you're you're far away from here. There's always this constant threat that they're going to take it away from you, and then you're just going to become a refugee. And so me and my sister kind of took that decision together, and we moved back. Found a small apartment.
Natalie: I saved up for like a year, basically before I moved back just so that I can like make sure that if I case like, I'm not working, because, you know, at that time, like remote work wasn't even a thing, really.
Natalie: and I was really lucky and blessed with my job in Doha. And they agreed basically to let me take unpaid leave. And I was working there as a merchandise and fashion designer for museums at the time.
Natalie: and they were very understanding. Because I was like, you know, I have to go do this like, you know, there's quite a lot of paperwork. And so during that year I moved back, I think
Natalie: it really like deepened my desire to basically fully move back here. Just being here for an entire full year, which I hadn't done since I was a child, and going through all the seasons, experiencing
Natalie: Jerusalem and all these different states and stages, and just like watching, you know, flowers bloom and spring coming around. And all of these tiny things that you really miss when you live in the Gulf, like you don't experience those types of things, and just like eating also seasonally like that was such a huge thing for me, like, you know. In the winter you'll get like all of the citrus, and then you'll get like the strawberries that come from Gaza, and all of these things that really just like connect you to the land. And so that year for me it was just
Natalie: kind of like a teaser.
Natalie: and when I moved back I moved back to Doha for quite a while, and during the time that I was here I actually my now husband.
Natalie: and we kept in contact when I moved back. And then during that time, I really felt that
Natalie: so actually, I was wanting to start my own business at that time, and I didn't feel that I wanted to do so in Doha. I felt that I wanted to actually put down roots. Here. I felt very passionate about producing here, even though it was more expensive, more difficult. The options are a lot more limited, but I really felt that I wanted to produce, not only in Palestine, but specifically in Jerusalem, to have product. That's Palestinian from Jerusalem, because
Natalie: we are so few. And when people refer to Jerusalem, you know, even, you know, prior to the war and the genocide that's happening at the moment.
Natalie: you know, you say Jerusalem and people instantly associate that with Israel. And so just to have that kind of presence to say something is being created somewhere that is Palestinian and Arab. And it isn't all Israeli, because often, you know, we get, we get, we get looked over. People don't really pay attention to Palestinians in Jerusalem. And so for me, that was super important. And so when I came to the decision to like.
Natalie: Okay, I want to leave my job. I want to start my business. I wanted to move back to start my business. And so I moved back in 2017.
Natalie: And I registered my company here, basically, and started working on Natalie Tahhan, the brand and it was kind of like
Natalie: It was an amazing space to be in, and there was a lot of challenges. I'll dive into that, I guess, a little bit later. But that kind of like solidified my my me wanting to be here, and just
Natalie: really putting down roots, and and then things moved forward with my now husband, and then we got married, and so forth, and you know it just felt for me even till now. I mean, like I've been here for almost 10 years now since I 1st moved back, and I don't regret it at all. Yes, I go back to second home every now and then visit my mom, visit my sisters, and visit like family and stuff like that, but
Natalie: like this will always be home. This will always feel like home. Just because, like people around, you are like you people understand you? And again, just going back to the point where, like, I really really truly appreciate all the little things in life that we have here that you might not have abroad, and I only feel like I do appreciate that. And I have kind of a different outlook as opposed to someone who's always grown up here
Natalie: because everyone looks at me. They're like, you're crazy like, why did you come back? And I'm like, you guys don't know what it's like to live abroad like I lived in Doha, in Dubai, in the Uk. I've lived everywhere like in a lot of different places, and and it's honestly it's not. It's not like here. Yes, it's difficult to live here. It's more expensive with the occupation, like life is not easy checkpoints, everything, I mean, even when I go to be come back like I don't. I don't know if it's going to take me an hour or 2 h or 3 h to get home.
Natalie: But even with that, despite all of that. I still prefer to be here. Just that alone, like, and and to be able to produce here work here and do everything that I'm doing here means more to me than
Natalie: you know, more than anything really. So that's kind of like my back story. In terms of like how I ended up here, and how I ended up back here. And then also my sister also moved back. And she's been here for a while as well, so we were able to to do that. I feel very blessed and fortunate to A to have not lost my residency and B to have like basically put down roots, and now be able to to like live here full time.
Lina: That is so beautiful. Just the description of like experiencing it seasonally, you know, it's very different to go for a week visit, and and even that's hard for the majority outside of Philistine. What a beautiful just I don't know. Description is your family originally from Jerusalem as well, or from other places in Palestine.
Natalie: Yeah. So both actually, both my parents are from Jerusalem. My dad's side of the family is actually from the old city, and my Mom's side of the family is my mom's Nishashibi as well. So they're one of the very old known Jerusalemite families that have been here for generations. So yes, both both sides. But I also like I love, you know, like here, when you're here as well, like just being able to move around, go to different cities and experience different.
Natalie: it's really strange, right? Because the country is so small. But when you move around you hear different dialects, it's as if, even if you're moving. Only like you're traveling by car. Let's say, for an hour an hour and a half.
Natalie: You see different types of people. You meet different people, different dialects, maybe a little bit different culture customs, even though we're all Palestinian. I love that like I love the fact that I can go to Khalil, and it's like a totally different. I feel like I traveled and I went somewhere else, and I met new people and they talk different. They have different customs. Everything is different.
Natalie: and say, when I go to the North or Haifa, well, I feel blessed and unfortunate to be able to move around
Amanne: Removed.
Natalie: For that alone just makes you really appreciate like the space that you're in, and and
Natalie: just like it's never boring. It's always and people here are just really, really like, just wonderful. They're really good people. The majority.
Amanne: Yeah. So you you mentioned obviously, like, you know, Palestine is a small country. You are able to kind of move around a little bit, just for listeners who maybe have never been to Palestine or not, kind of familiar with traveling within. The 48 borders and West Bank as a Palestinian. Can you explain like what that's like? Because you live in Jerusalem, you work in business like, what does that look like for you?
Natalie: So because I'm a Jerusalem id holder, I'm able to obviously live in Jerusalem, travel to the west bank, but I'm also able to travel within
Natalie: the 48 Territory, even though I don't like to use that term, occupied 48 territory. And so I'm obviously not able to go to Gaza at any point, even before the the genocide. And so it allows you to be able to move around. But at the same time, like my day to day when I'm going to work and whatnot, I obviously still have to go through a lot of checkpoints.
Natalie: So just exiting and entering Jerusalem, there's checkpoints. And then also, while you're moving around within the west bank, a lot of checkpoints. And it's extremely unpredictable, really, because.
Natalie: especially in the current, any current situation. Just with things happening constantly. There's like so many like telegram groups that tell you that I have to constantly check every time I want to get to the car like whether I go through this checkpoint if it's open, if there's traffic, if there's no traffic, because
Natalie: the checkpoints are not always in the same places. They they call them like literally or like, which means it's a ever changing or constantly moving checkpoint. And this and these are the ones obviously that are not like fully built. And you have to go through like a physical structure to go through.
Natalie: And so it's really not easy. It takes a kind of like a mental toll on you, really and specifically, especially now, I mean with the with everything that's been going on. I feel like sometimes people think like the west bank is so far away from Gaza, but it really isn't. And everything that happens, whether it's in Gaza or in the west bank, and a lot of the times in Jerusalem. If there's like Amaliyat, or like
Natalie: anything going on in Jerusalem, it's it's all connected, and everything on the ground is really like everyone feels it. And so
Natalie: I think it's sometimes unfair to say that like, Oh, you know, some people like in the North. They're not like experiencing what I'm experiencing or like, you know, we all try to just understand, because everyone is going through the same thing in terms of like, how difficult it is to actually process. This is different from somebody that's living outside. So
Natalie: just having the like, you know, just going to work like I don't know if I'm going to get there. If the road is going to be blocked, the amount of times I've had to like. Go around driving around for like an extra 45 min, just to be able to get back to where I need to get to or sometimes it's just like the other day there was you know, the shooting in Qalqilya, and all all of us were like, you know, at the university, saying, like, none of us know, if we're going to be able to get home today.
Natalie: And so you kind of get used to it, you get desensitized to it. But at the same time I feel like the the mental toll that it takes on you that you don't really maybe process. But you do feel it. You feel like you're constantly
Natalie: down, and then you're also having to digest everything that's happening in Gaza and so it's just
Natalie: all of that combined is is not easy, but I feel like
Natalie: any I feel like there's there has to be some form of like resistance, and there has to be some form of like, you know, you have to keep telling yourself like you have to keep going despite of of everything and just.
Natalie: And it's also not normal that a university is continuously having to like, for instance, because of because of the things that happened a few days ago. A lot of my students just couldn't, couldn't get to class, and they'll literally send you a message.
Amanne: Such as.
Natalie: Like, Oh, like I'm stuck in Nablus, or you know I couldn't get out because there's roadblocks, or like one of my students, will. You know she leaves the house at 4 Am. To reach my class at 8 Am. So that she, because she needs to get out of Lazariguez, which is in the west bank. Go through Jerusalem, come to Ramallah, then to. So it's just
Natalie: like the movement. The restriction of movement is really real, and I feel like until you live here for a good amount of time. You don't really
Natalie: feel how bad it is and how bad it like affects you mentally.
Lina: Yeah, I actually was doing a quick Google maps search because I don't think people realize how small Philistine is.
Lina: So
Lina: like for you working, living in Jerusalem, working in Beirut. It's only 30 kilometers apart. That's like 18 miles for my Americans. So like, if you live in the DC Virginia area that's like going from. I don't know Tyson's corner into the city, and it takes you 3 h sometimes or not at all. You may not even be able to get there. So for, like, you know, just contextually, that's insane. That's absolutely.
Natalie: Yeah, yeah, of course it is. Yeah, I mean, like, nor on a on a good day. It takes me like 45 min. If there's no traffic, no check like, okay, checkpoint fully clear. Takes me 45 to 50 min, door to door. But most days it takes me around a minimum of an hour and a half to 2 h, sometimes 3. So, yeah.
Lina: I mean, yeah.
Natalie: And I actually like. So I I teach part time, and I make sure that they pack all of my courses within 2 days, so that I'm not having to make the trip 3 times a week or 4 times a week. And I purposely do this, and they like very nicely agree
Natalie: this because I teach core classes, not electives or anything. They're core classes for second, 3rd years. And so yeah, it's really weird. But there's a lot of things that are put into place to.
Lina: You know. Accommodate, or yeah, I'll keep it.
Amanne: Yeah.
Natalie: Like you can't just be like, you know. I'm meeting up with my friend, and I'm I'll see you in half an hour. No, I don't know.
Natalie: Take me. It'll take me, however long it's gonna take me to get to you, and I need the space between Jerusalem and Ramallah is like nothing
Natalie: with the checkpoint, you know, like it could take you like a couple of hours, especially now that they've closed a lot of the major checkpoints, and so they bottleneck people at certain. So when.
Amanne: That's true.
Natalie: Hour they close certain checkpoints so that they bottleneck everyone into one checkpoint. And just to make the experience worse, this is, and this is more, you know, more frequent during during the genocide, so.
Lina: Well, we could go on and on about this, but we do want to jump into your Tatreez journey, of course, and we want to hear more about your classes and teaching at Birzeit, because there is a tie there to Tatreez, so maybe to get us kicked off. Could you share a little bit about how you started, Tatreez. When did that experience begin for you?
Natalie: I think very early on. I feel like it was when I was still in school here. I remember they would send us home like these home like kits for Tatreez to like.
Natalie: you know, with your little like embroidery band, and like the colors, and they'll give you like a little drawing, and you'd have, and it would always be like some sort of cartoon or something. It was never like the actual embroidery motifs.
Natalie: and so I remember, like just being like maybe 7 or 6 years old, and like sitting on the steps in front of the house like, and I doing all of these like little cross stitch embroidery pieces, and I remember, like I was obsessed I loved it. And then I kind of really disconnected from it, because I, you know, like, grew up in doha and stuff. So it was never something that was like really around. It was more like when we came back to the
Natalie: the country in the summer, and like you'd buy pieces, or like, you know, and because both of my parents are, they're from Jerusalem, the Jerusalemites. So we don't have like a lot of trees around, you know, and it wasn't something like obviously like that. My grandmother passed on to my mother. It was never like that like. I don't even think my mom owned a thobe
Natalie: during her wedding, or anything like that. It wasn't very like prominent in our household. And so when I was in university, I really wanted to kind of so for my graduation project.
Natalie: Did a lot of research and really wanted to
Natalie: connect to to, you know, my heritage and my culture, and really kind of. So I studied at London College of fashion, and so also, being in that space like I wanted to like educate people about my culture and talk about Palestine and and then that's when I really kind of dove in. I started doing quite a lot of research about it, and like, basically for my thesis and for my final collection. And it kind of like took me by surprise. A. That I didn't know. This initially is that
Natalie: every embroidery motif comes from specific place, and it means something, and it's a language, and every village has its own shade of red of Dmc. And how that was even introduced because of the British mandate, and like, I mean, the coloring, the coding system, and what they used to do before that, and how they used to dye the fabrics, and how they used to dye the thread, and and also like the silk road and the silk coming through and from humps and and Syria, and like Lebanon, and
Natalie: just all of that
Natalie: like, you know, all of that information, and I really dove in to kind of understand. And because I had to write my thesis about it just I fell in love. I honestly fell in love with with how, even back then, there was this, this secret language, basically between women. And just, you know, was such a huge part of their lives. It talked about their social status, talked about.
Natalie: You know. Their interests, their geographical location communicated so much by just by by what they were wearing, and I feel like, you know, people look at fashion now, and they look at you know how
Natalie: clothing is. Such a expression of it's a self expression, and it's it's it talks about your kind of personality. What you put on your body communicates that. And the fact that this was like so prominent for them back in the day. And it was such a
Natalie: so cool. I know it was like, Oh, yeah, you know, we just.
Amanne: Yeah.
Natalie: Part of what we do. You know you just like you know you do. You know you do all of the before your wedding, and you do all of your like, and you're preparing all of this, you know, because you're a bride, and then, if you become a widow, that you dye it all back to blue. And then if you remarry, you put back some red, and and it's just like all of that information, just like I honestly, just
Natalie: really fell in love with it, and kind of made me definitely want to continue and pursue that and really kind of spread the message because I felt like if I didn't know I definitely didn't know about.
Natalie: You know the details of all of this before I looked into it, and I at that point, especially like talking about in 22,008, 2,007. It wasn't like common knowledge is a language. And this is why I was saying earlier that I appreciate what you guys do so much because it's part of also what I was trying to do in the beginning, where, like you educating people and telling them like
Natalie: you're talking about the actual essence of Tatreez, and what it means, and and all of that. So like, I'm amazed by both of you. Yeah. So basically, that's when I started my business. I thought that, yeah, I need everything that I wanted to do
Natalie: and even till now, like, I have so many ideas about what I still want to do. But it was definitely 100% gonna be
Natalie: around to trees. And for my graduation project. It was also like a very contemporary, take on the embroidery motifs, and how I turned those into prints and stuff. And so when I started the brand. It was kind of a continuation of that, but also during that point, because I knew it was, gonna you know, be released with my name on it all of that kind of thing. I really didn't want to lose the
Natalie: the essence of the actor. I wanted to stay true to the motif itself as it was created. So I didn't change the shape of the motif. I drew motifs as they were, and really stuck true to like the actual number of cross stitches for every every, because, like the Saru motif, for instance, is, you know, there is a Saru motif for almost every village and city in Palestine. But each one is different, based on how many stitches there are. And so
Natalie: you know, I had to honor that basically. And this is how Prince of Palestine came around.
Natalie: and how I started with you know, moving from graduation to then, working for a long time as a merchandise designer and then deciding finally, like, I want to actually do this. And I wanted to not only just produce this. I wanted to produce this locally, and I wanted to educate people. about the trees. And this is how Prince of Palestine came and how I narrowed it down to 5 cities, and yeah, basically.
Amanne: Okay, so many questions like that. I just loved hearing all of that. But I am curious
Amanne: how, when you decided life and I want to focus on Tetris as a part of you know your your graduation and your thesis like, where did you start diving in to learn about Tetris, and to learn about the history and stuff, because I think, as you mentioned like, not that long ago, there weren't a lot of resources to learn anything about Tetris. So at that time, where were you learning? And how were you learning deeper.
Natalie: So actually, the 1st place I started was the University Library, which is surprising, because, honestly like so, London College of Fashion has the biggest fashion library, I think, in the world, and they give access to alumni. They give access to basically like fit parsons, all of the top fashion schools in the world, because I would issue their archive. I would issue their British, and also they occupy them for a long period of time.
Amanne: Yeah.
Natalie: And so, yeah, I mean, they, they have everything, basically. And so when I started to look, I found a lot of books by. I found books that I found photographs of photographers that were here during the British mandate that took pictures of these women of the embroidery, and then kind of started more into like the actual motifs and where they come from and what they mean. And looking at the dyeing techniques and all of that. So I basically just started with the library
Natalie: and really like looked at a lot of books, and there was few there. There weren't many. But the archive honestly was, was I was blown away like by how how much they have and just having access to that like, I thought I knew that I had to like any.
Natalie: basically use everything and and really like, include everything in my portfolio, just so that I could.
Natalie: because I still use use those those images. And I still look at those things for today for inspiration and having access to that at the time Daniel was like a gold mine.
Natalie: So just from there and then, basically started diving in online, really tried to buy every single book. And then when I moved, I came back in the summer of during university years.
Natalie: I went to a lot of organizations that do, Tatreez. I spoke to a lot of women. I created samples like, you know, I was like one of the very few people in the beginning, like going like, Oh, can you do like on like silk? Can you do no or like. Can you do Tatreez on chiffon? Or can you do Tatreez on Jersey because I want to do like Tatreez on like some stretch like silk fabric, and they were all looking at me like, No, like, that's just not gonna work like you can only do it on. What do they call it? Sorry? The.
Lina: Linen, maybe.
Natalie: Canvas. Yeah, the canvas, or like the
Natalie: so I'm just like, you know, they're like white, black navy, maybe. And I.
Natalie: Like, you know, silk pleated silk like fabric that I had like made that I wanted to use for the collection, and saying, like, I want to do samples to see if this works and so I created quite a lot of samples here. I did them in Ramallah, actually, with
Natalie: which is an incredible association, which I then later on in life, was very fortunate to work with and do the curriculum that I likely touched upon earlier. So yeah, I mean, like, just came back here, took a lot of pictures, met with a lot of women, spoke to so many people to try to gain as much knowledge as possible before actually designing the collection, and I felt that because I was in like a
Natalie: I felt like I was in a space where I really wanted to do something contemporary like I feel like in university. You kind of have that creative space where you know you're not going into production. You're not risking too much money. You have this creative space to kind of do what you want to do. And so I kind of really played around with it. I went to like more pastel colors, put a lot of silks, and
Natalie: did a lot of things that I wouldn't normally do when you're thinking from like a you know, as a designer standpoint, where you're like thinking, okay, this needs to be wearable. This needs to make sense. This needs to be like, you know, have function. Price, point all of these things that you have to take into consideration. When you're an art student or a design student. You don't have those restrictions. And so
Natalie: that was kind of like, the only time I really kind of just
Natalie: did what I wanted to do, and I knew I had to take advantage of that of that chance. But then, when I started with Prince of Palestine for me, it was like passing on the message of everything that I learned that I wanted to like.
Natalie: move on and show people. And that was like the idea coming into like, okay, let's create a print for Gaza. Let's create. That's that's all. Gaza motifs. Let's create a print for Yaffa. Let's create a print for Jerusalem. And all of these prints were like my kind of contemporary take on, and when the collection was released it was actually like.
Natalie: 1st of all, was really humbling because people thought it was. I was like, Oh, okay, like, no, like, I had to specify. When people are like messaging or sending emails and stuff like, no, this is a print, and it's printed on silk, and we design the fabric, and we worked with it, and so on and so forth.
Natalie: And so. Yeah, it was like, I love that people thought it was actual Tatreez. And then it kind of just like
Natalie: I wanted. The whole point was of doing it with print was basically that if you're buying something that is that heavily embroidered A, you have to get it. Sorry you have to get it. Custom made.
Natalie: And secondly, it's going to cost you an arm and a leg, and so for me to make something a little bit more accessible, and not take away from its true beauty and its true meaning specifically with going like, Okay, no, I'm going to do like a print for Ramallah, and it's going to be on white, because Ramallah is the only village or city that has Abyad, or like a white thobe in the summer, and they have a summer thobe, and they have a winter thobe, and so highlighting all of these things by being really true to the actual
Natalie: embroidery, but then doing it in a contemporary way where it's a print, even though the embroidery is still exact size, shape, cross, stitch, same number everything.
Natalie: and doing that and doing it in that way for me was like kind of like making sure that there's a conversation
Natalie: where someone is wearing a piece. And then someone says, Oh, like it's conversation opener like, oh, so like, what are you wearing? And then they'll say, like, Oh, this is from. And so when the collection released, it was really funny, because a lot of people that were from all these 5 cities that I actually any due to like basically monetary restriction. I was like, I'm only doing 5, and we're doing a small quantity.
Amanne: M.
Natalie: It wasn't too small. But Sani, you know, cause when you're starting out you want to kind of be like.
Amanne: You know not not to like. Blow your all your capital on your 1st collection. Of course.
Natalie: Of course
Natalie: it was really cool, because, you know, like, like the girls from Ramallah were like, Oh, you know, I'm from Ramallah. I want the Ramallah Cape and the girls from, and then you start getting people that are just like, you know, so many different nationalities coming in and and buying these pieces people from Brazil. I had people from Greeks so many different, so many different Singapore, like I shipped. I shipped everywhere, really, and it was really cool, because sometimes it wasn't even like they weren't even Palestinian, but they loved
Natalie: the print, and they love total trees. And so and then they would pass on that message, and they would always ask, and we would always like, educate people on like what it is, and and even with everything like with social media, everything. We were continuously writing on the posts. And and this was even for reels existed, you know, like there was just like barely Instagram video.
Natalie: And so I remember, like being very adamant to like saying to the photographer during the shoot, like, I want video. And he was like, Why do you want video. And I was like, I want, just, you know, I don't want videos, just maybe. And then we started posting those and stuff. And and it was just, you know, it kind of took off, really, and I didn't expect it to take off the way that it did. It really did take off really well, there was a lot of international media coverage on it. And
Natalie: it was good in, in a way, but at the same time I felt like it was good and bad, not not bad so much. But it was more like I felt like a lot of the international media, not local media really wanted to brand it as like
Natalie: resistance, right? And and I just feel like, yes, okay, existing and celebrating our culture. And all of that is is existence. And yes.
Amanne: Didn't.
Natalie: Be a form of resistance, but command. Why is it that just because we exist means that we resist. Why? Why just have this
Natalie: this. Why can't we just be like everybody else like that? Celebrates their culture, whether they're Hawaiian or Mexican, or or whatever? And and you know they're just celebrating their culture. It's not resistance. It's just them being able to express and celebrate the beauty of their culture and their country, and all of that. And so, and and this was obviously like this was
Natalie: this was after 2,008, after 2,014, after 2.
Natalie: And so I felt like the international media like, whenever they're like, just, you know, focusing on something in Jerusalem, they want to link it back to that. And then for me, like, I kind of had this feeling like.
Natalie: you don't have to label it as resistance. Yes, okay, we exist. But we exist does not mean. And just because we were celebrating what we are and who we are
Natalie: in in times like these. Yes, it's it's it's it's important. It's always important. It should never, not be important. And so that kind of just like
Natalie: I don't know. It makes you look at like at things differently and like, makes you think back to like Orientalism, and think back to like.
Natalie: So, being continuously occupied by.
Amanne: Yeah, which?
Natalie: The ottomans and the history of the country kind of just like I feel like everyone wants to put you in a box and label you. It's more specifically here, I mean as Palestinians, Yani.
Amanne: Any.
Natalie: Now, even now I feel like you know, you're either for or against, and it should be that way, I guess. Now, with the genocide, whether you're for or against. But you know, during that time it was very much like
Natalie: as if you couldn't just celebrate you for being you and and and.
Amanne: Yeah, you couldn't just exist in yourself.
Natalie: This Palestinian designer, you know. So it was just like, yeah, that kind of like got to me at the time. Yeah.
Amanne: Yeah.
Amanne: no, I I hear that. I think you know, you hear about people from different marginalized communities, or demographics. And it's like, sometimes it is like, sometimes I don't want to be strong. Sometimes I just want to exist. Sometimes I don't want to be like, you know, constantly fighting. Sometimes I just want to be and I think, especially when you're doing something like fashion where it is like this creative art form like
Amanne: at its soul, you know it sounds like all of your work, sounds very, very Palestinian at its soul, and it's kind of like you just want it to exist as it is, as opposed to like having to be something bigger and having to take on so much. So I definitely can understand that.
Amanne: I am also so obviously you've like talked about. The Prince of Palestine, like collection, which is like kind of where I 1st saw your work. Through social media, and I was obsessed. I was like, Oh, my God, I like need one of these capes. Which I still do need one of these capes. We'll talk about that later. But you know, you know, it's really it was really cool to see somebody take
Amanne: this traditional art form and this traditional policy and design and bring it to today and like, kind of modernize it. Because that's something that I personally love doing. I'm not necessarily into like the old school, quote unquote styles. So I would love to understand from you like.
Amanne: what does that? What has that looked like for you to take these traditional designs and styles, and translate that into kind of a contemporary fashion.
Natalie: I feel like, initially, I was kind of worried that the reaction would be negative. Because.
Natalie: you know, it's it's something that's been, you know. Obviously, it's part of our heritage, and it's been practiced for so many years. And and Hamdulillah, it was the opposite. It was like people really appreciated the fact that well, 1st of all, they thought it was, which was great, and then they really appreciated the like. The educational aspect of what I was trying to do just because I felt like before then. It wasn't really widespread knowledge that there was, like.
Natalie: you know, motifs from from specific areas or like colors for specific areas. Or you know, all these types of things. And I feel like, now, you know, it's a little bit more common knowledge. But back. Then it wasn't like I released the collection in 2016 and back then, really like
Natalie: no one was really, you know, thinking about in that way, or just unless you were already like actually practicing. And so yeah, that was kind of it. And honestly like, just because, like, I felt like it like I said it would have been too expensive to create what I wanted to create in actual. And then no one would buy it like, basically because it would be way too expensive to buy. If it was that that.
Amanne: Lovely.
Natalie: Bordered, and also, like I just kind of took into. So at the time as well like my main, my main connections were in the Gulf. We're in Dubai. We're in Doha. And so I was constantly thinking, like, you know, this is hot weather countries and wearing.
Amanne: Such heavy.
Natalie: Items, heavy pieces of like not really wearable. And so for me, like this kind of like
Natalie: contemporary aspect and modernization came as solutions for problems that I felt that I had with traditional Tatreez. And so being able to produce something that was basically
Natalie: trying to stay as true as possible to the original and honor that, but at the same time, you know, lightweight silk could be worn, for, like also, like special occasions which which we do like we rented for special occasions. And all of that came into play, basically. And I mean, it took me a really long time to actually design. The print so
Natalie: like, I said, did a lot of research, and then put everything into like, you know, this is for the city. This is for this city, this for the city, I mean in terms of motifs, and then going back and then basically creating like the puzzle or the print itself, and putting things together, and deciding what colors I wanted for for things and for for how the motifs were supposed to look, and then how they would align on the cut for the actual pieces. So there was a lot of I feel like the 1st collection, because I spent so much time
Natalie: doing it because I had that time. It wasn't like a restriction between, like, you know, I put something out, and then I have to put something out again and again and again. And so there was. I remember it took me like 8 months to just do the 5 prints themselves, and this was like continuous hours of work, just because
Natalie: I digitally drew every motif and then digitally colored every motif. And you're talking about like.
Natalie: I mean I did. It was around 52 inches by a meter for the 1st lock of like fabric, and then that was obviously like. Then print repeated, but
Natalie: to cover that entire space, and then know how I would be able to cut the pieces onto it. And so, as I said, I studied women's wear. So I have obviously like background knowledge in construction and all of that. So I already knew, like exactly the cut. How I wanted it did all the patterns did not not the motif patterns, but the dress patterns, or like let's say, the Cape patterns at that time, and I also did did basically a free size piece because it was my
Natalie: initial launch, and I didn't want to take too much of a risk where, you know, sizing was such a huge issue. And so this, like free size or one size item.
Natalie: was able to just kind of like, push that out to a lot more people and people were a lot. And you're talking about like this was such a long time ago. This was almost 10 years ago. People weren't really shopping online at the time. There was like, barely like Asos, I remember, like, you know, like Nordstrom, all these places didn't really have websites at the time they were shopping online wasn't really in.
Natalie: you know, and I was shipping orders out like through Aramix and Dhl. And all these companies. And it wasn't like
Natalie: it wasn't normal at the time to just like order clothes online. And so because I wanted to have this outreach, it was really important for me to also like, make it lightweight and make it accessible, and for people not to think too much like about whether it's gonna fit or not, because
Natalie: they can see the pictures they can visualize. And then
Natalie: and again I said, like it wasn't normal to order clothes online back then. So I had to make sure that it was done in a way where the customer was confident in ordering this, and then also for it to be able to spread as much as it did so. Everything I did really, I like, you know, took into consideration nothing was done like
Natalie: without thought or without or just just so. And so. Yeah, I really try to
Natalie: be specific and be intent, like intentional, with what I was doing, how I was doing it. And that kind of allowed me to do it in a modern contemporary way.
Lina: So what is the status of this collection? And then I really want us to dive into your role as a fashion design and technology instructor at Bidders, University.
Natalie: So the status of the collection is that it's sold out, and I feel like people are constantly.
Amanne: What's the next iteration of the yeah with the next iteration.
Natalie: People have been constantly coming back and saying like, can you please reproduce, reproduce, reproduce? So actually, I continued producing them up until 2019, and then in 2020, when Covid hit, I took a really hard hit honestly with my main supplier for my fabric, where I used to print my fabric. So I used to print at the UAE because
Natalie: because I couldn't print locally. There aren't any fabric printers in Palestine, not not one to the quality, not even to the quality. They they don't even do the same fabrics. They do things like screen printing, or like the basic, very basic printing, like the actual printing process isn't available here, and I didn't want to obviously work with like an Israeli supplier.
Natalie: And so I was working with a supplier in Dubai, and they had closed down during Covid, and so I lost my supplier. And then for me like that was a really difficult thing, because I was continuously looking, even tried to work with suppliers here, like
Natalie: printers that work with other types of materials or things like that, to kind of push suppliers here to kind of be able to give me at least the same quality or color grade. And and you know, because you can't like reproduce something, and for it to not be the same. And I faced quite a lot of challenges during that time, especially during Covid. Covid was very difficult here, more specifically in Jerusalem, because
Natalie: again, with the occupation, it was like very like knuckled down within the Arab neighborhoods. There was a lot of you couldn't move around at all like for months on end, I remember. Like for 6 months of the year. We just couldn't. You couldn't move around your house for more than like was like 500 meters, unless you're going to like the pharmacy or the grocery
Natalie: story. And I remember, like, you know, like the Israeli police like being right outside. So we lived on the main road at the time, and they were just constantly outside, like basically finding people, they would just fine heavily in Arab neighborhoods continuously in Jerusalem, because they knew they could. And they
Natalie: they knew they just. You know, this was like a free buck to them during Covid, and so like the restriction of movement and the mental toll that I think it took. Yes, globally. A lot of people were home for long periods of time. But it's more specifically in Jerusalem, even more than other spaces in Palestine we really felt it. It was very difficult.
Natalie: And so during that time, I basically fully stopped production. And after, you know, when things started opening up and stuff like that, I started to push, you know, suppliers here to to kind of just
Natalie: try to get the quality that I wanted, tried to find suppliers in the Uae again, didn't really find what I found, find what I wanted. And so during that time I was working on other projects where I did print the stitch as well.
Natalie: which was another collection that I did in collaboration with a French designer who had come here. And we were like working together on this project, and was really really cool where we basically did similar print, but it was all hand printing, and we did large scale, like cross stitches and things like that. And when I produced that I felt a little bit at ease, because, even though it wasn't what I wanted to continue with at the time, especially going back to like
Natalie: my actual print, it was kind of like a buffer for me to just kind of say, like, Okay, you know, you're you know, you're kind of getting back into doing what you love to do. But that that whole break really kind of just pushed things in a different direction for me at the time, and
Natalie: up until actually
Natalie: Last year in September. I went to Turkey. Finally, finally, after so many trials, found an incredible supplier for for my fabrics, printed, printed everything and obviously, during that time production was like, you know.
Natalie: sampling. Everything was was done ready for production. And then, obviously, October happened. And so at that time, and even till now. I don't feel in my heart
Natalie: that it is acceptable or okay to release
Natalie: a collection at the time. At at this time.
Natalie: I know a lot of people release product.
Natalie: Release T-shirts with like a little watermelon on it. And they'd be like, Oh, yeah, we're giving like 15% to Gaza or whatnot, and like no shame to those people. But I just felt like.
Natalie: Yeah, we're in Jerusalem, and we can't even get a sheikel across to Gaza, and you're telling me you're like God knows where, and you're sending money to God knows who, trying to get money somewhere where I know that it's just it's just not gonna
Natalie: go, you know. And and it's I just felt like there was a lot of like people capitalizing from from from what was going on, and I know it's difficult for people to hear, and I know it's not for my opinion to be shared like. I know this is something that a lot of people don't maybe think about. But for me it was like commercializing, commercializing the genocide, and and like the trend that Palestine is trending. And so let's make some sales. And and and I know for a fact that a lot of these
Natalie: these pages or companies
Natalie: weren't sending money, and they were just profiting off of this. And and yes, okay, fine. The watermelon is now a sign of resistance, and it has been since the 1st Intifada where women were actually embroidering the on their toes, and like putting little doves. And, you know, putting the Palestinian flag on their toes because they couldn't carry the flag even in the 1st Intifada.
Natalie: And so just being here and like looking at that from from being here, and then looking at people outside abroad doing that? Yes, I understand. There's some people giving like to medical aid for Palestine people giving for, like the Palestinian Red Crescent, and you know, but if you want to do that, you don't have to create merch to do that, you can just give money. You don't have to like
Natalie: benefit off of like creating something
Natalie: in terms. Because because there are, there's so many artists here that released released product. And they said, a hundred percent of profit is going to Palestine, you know. And I was like, you know, okay, these are the people that are actually doing it right and and because when you're here, like, there is specific ways of being able to send. Obviously not not at this time, but like maybe up until like 4 months ago you could actually send wire transfers to a bank of Palestine account that they can actually.
Natalie: Without black market, without
Natalie: all of these additional fees that are being paid paid to people that should not, you know, be getting, you know all this extra cash. That's just, you know. And so
Natalie: yeah, during even that, that's why, till now, I feel like I haven't. Actually, it just doesn't sit right with me, and I don't know when it will sit right with me. And it's just been sitting on the back burner. I mean like it's it's like having. It's like sitting on something that you know you really want to release.
Natalie: And there's the other side where, like, you're watching other people. You know, other people are releasing things. Other people are working, they're continuing. And I feel like it's not that I feel like I'm not continuing with with what I with my work, and it's
Natalie: it just feels insensitive. It just feels.
Natalie: You know. I don't know. There are no words really like to what we, what we're witnessing and what we're all feeling and so I try to work within the spaces that I can. But right now releasing a collection is like, yes, it will celebrate my culture. Yes, it will show Palestine in a different light. Yes, it will, it will be happy, and it will be good, and it will be beautiful, and it will be colorful, and it will be all of these good things. But at this time I just feel like it doesn't.
Natalie: It's not the right time.
Amanne: Yeah, I think that makes sense. I mean, we have. Lena and I have definitely talked about this phenomenon of people profiting off of genocide. It's I don't think it's that controversial to say. And
Amanne: you know, it is something that you've seen a lot. We've all seen a lot of which is unfortunate. But again, I think to your point, there are a lot of people who
Amanne: are, you know, while it's difficult now to get money in. There have been some people who have been doing some great work, and those are the people that we should focus on so just shifting gears a little bit, Lena mentioned earlier about your work as a fashion design and technology instructor at Birzeit University. And I know you shared before we started recording, you actually shared the fact
Amanne: that the threes kind of connected you to this job. So can you talk to us a little bit about how your journey with the threes, led you to your journey as an instructor. At present University.
Natalie: Yeah, for sure. I mean, this actually happened during Covid as well. And so it was kind of like a a really amazing thing that happened, because, as I just mentioned, it was a very difficult time, and I had to stop everything with with the brand. And so it came at an amazing time where I could do this really great opportunity with it was actually with 2 organizations,
Natalie: and the main organization was in. And they're based in Ramallah. They have been for a very, very, very long time. They are all about female empowerment, empowering the community around them, and their focus is on. They have a gallery art space where they display old thobes, and they have
Natalie: great facilities where they teach, and they have a great sewing space as well where they teach sewing. They teach women sewing. And it's all like Pro bono. Basically, it's just to like enrich the community. And they really wanted. So as as this organization has grown over the years, they've become an educational institution as well where they're able to actually
Natalie: with with Ministry of education's approval. And, like, you know, they're actually accredited to teach diploma degrees.
Natalie: And so they teach diploma degrees for women in basically like cooking, for to become a chef. They teach for hairdressing and beauty school, and then they also teach, as I said, like for embroidery, and all of these things for women to then go on and be able to like, have an income, start something, start a project, or also work with them on projects to to make a living from. And so
Natalie: Their initial idea was basically to have me come on as a as a consultant, to write a curriculum.
Natalie: an academic curriculum, to teach at a diploma level. Basically, like, you know, college, I guess you would call it in the States. And
Natalie: Initially, I was a little bit hesitant because I knew how much like I would really have to dive in, and also the lack of resources at the time, because of the difficulties that I faced when I was in university, and so but it was like it was such a huge challenge at the time, but I felt like it was something I definitely wanted to do, and something that I definitely felt like I could do. And so over the next
Natalie: 9 months I worked on this curriculum with one of their you know, one of their main employees that was working on the project with me, and we, just, you know, worked on a chapter by chapter trying to break down. You know this like curriculum for for basically really introducing the idea of Tatreez as an academic
Natalie: resource. As for you know, for the women to be able to, you know, not just be able to do the Tatreez, but to understand the history behind. Understand not just the history behind Tatreez, but also the Palestinian cultural heritage, our actual clothing, like where it comes from, the men's clothing. All of these things the dyeing techniques, the historical dyeing techniques. When Dmcs and and all of this was introduced when the colors were introduced.
Natalie: you know, basically to really dive in and
Natalie: gained this in-depth knowledge of, of, and also it was combined that with fashion it combined that with construction, with pattern, cutting, sewing, high end sewing, not just like regular sewing, because, like, there's a lot of people that do sewing here and teaching high end sewing for me was an opportunity for all, or like actually writing the curriculum, for it was an opportunity to like better
Natalie: the quality of the the pieces being produced, and then being able to charge a bit more because of the quality is better. And so, because a lot of times you find, like all these beautiful places, and they're just stunning. The embroidery is stunning.
Natalie: but then the sewing is like really bad, and that kind of like lets down the the market value of the product. And sometimes you're just like, Oh, you know, I'm gonna have to fix this. Or, you know, when you're purchasing these items just because, historically, there hasn't been like this education for higher
Natalie: sewing skills, and so very fortunate to have been able to have done that. And then, almost so, we submitted this curriculum to the Ministry of Education, Palestine. And then, almost a year later, we had full approval on. You know, it takes a long process, obviously because you have to go through all the all the
Natalie: all the hurdles to get to actually and then like, go through everything like in terms of the, and break down everything into chapters, and then the duration of the course and outlining everything for that as well. So it ended up being basically as a 2 year course. Where these women are being able to learn all of these things about our, you know, historical culture
Natalie: specifically, and that for me, just it meant a lot to be able to do that, and it meant a lot that this was finally getting approved. It was translated into Arabic as well.
Natalie: because I initially wrote the curriculum in English as well, and so and then finally to have that in hand and see the book, and then for it to be taught, and then consult with the the lecturers and teachers that are. It was just an incredible experience. Honestly, it was amazing. And I learned so much
Natalie: about the trees as well, even more like basically like as a second time, diving a lot more in depth into it. And this kind of the with the success of this kind of led to me.
Natalie: And so, even during Covid, they had like reached out. And at the time I really wasn't like wanting to do education online, especially as a start for me. I just felt like I always wanted to.
Natalie: you know, if I was ever to do it, I would do it in person, and the whole point for me wasn't a monetary thing at all, because, obviously, like working in the west bank, the salaries are a lot lower than than what you could. What even working with the studio, with the work that I do, and for me it was like a moment where I felt like I could
Natalie: hopefully and try to create with everyone else that works there. Obviously, but more specifically in fashion, create a fashion community that you know, like Beirut, like Morocco, like all these other Arab countries where now there's a huge fashion Hub, where these designers are.
Natalie: you know, coming together as a collective and having this base and being supported, and and you know. And so if we start from education, you know, these kids will then graduate and then become designers, and then we'll have a lot more designers within the community. And then all these people come together and we can have.
Natalie: We can bring back. What was Danny? You know, before before 1948 there was
Natalie: so many production houses, the fabric production houses in Gaza, and we were a clothing production hub for the region. And I feel like this is something that a lot of people don't know or like don't really like. Think about or just are like unfamiliar with. And so
Natalie: I know it's really ambitious to say this, but I felt like from from education, from from starting from university.
Natalie: being able to teach these things, would then lead on to all of these people graduating, and then hopefully being able to work, and then also for for
Natalie: society to have you know, spaces for them to work in and for them to actually fulfill their their education, continue within their careers within, within the paths that they chose. And so they were great with me, because it was very like, you know, as I mentioned, I live in Jerusalem, and they're based in the west bank, and it's
Natalie: not too close to where I live. And so with the checkpoints and whatnot they were very you know, easy with me. They were able to like schedule my classes, but when I could come and and schedule them all together, so that I can give 2 courses throughout the semester that were core courses specific to the design course that they have. So the design course kind of at this moment in time. So the the college as part of it open to 2018
Natalie: And I've been there for 3 years now, and I really love it. Because you really see the change in students. You really because as well, you have to look at, you have to look back at the education system here in Palestine doesn't really focus on art or design a very limited to math, science, physics, and so on and so forth. And you know, like you becoming a lawyer, or a doctor, and or an engineer, or an architect. And so the fact that I see now in my class students from all walks of life, students from so many different areas
Natalie: where their parents and I told them this, actually, 2 days ago, I said, You guys are blessed. You should know that you're blessed that your parents are accepting for you to come and study. And this is, you know, also, like I feel like they do appreciate. Now, with everything that's going on, you do appreciate the fact that you're able to continue education even.
Natalie: And so just that alone just really
Natalie: made me want to do it, and made me want to be a part of it. And also they gave me free rein on on curriculum. They said, teach what you want to teach and so for me, being able to do that. So I teach a fashion design studio for second years and 3rd years. And I also teach fashion intro to fashion design technology, which is basically like
Natalie: the base for construction sewing all of these things. And then I really focus on them doing high end sewing. And you know, all of these things are just really important to quality and understanding, not just manufacturing, but understanding that when you go back into the works work
Natalie: and into the into work, basically after university understanding
Natalie: how to register a trademark, how to start a business.
Natalie: What you need to put your capital into. Where, how would you, Price? And how would you market your product? All of these things? I had free reign on, like, you know, teach what you want to teach. And so I felt all of these things were important that I actually included those as well in the curriculum for diploma. So that we're not just teaching skill. We're also teaching
Natalie: longevity and and also like options for career. And and you're giving the whole package. You're giving all the tools you're giving, marketing. You're giving sales. You're giving everything really to, you know, just so that because not a lot of educational programs do that.
Natalie: You know, they teach you like, oh, here, yeah, you can. You can be creative. You can create product. You can have. But then you don't think about price points. You're not thinking about how much it's going to cost you like this meter of fabric producing this much and and how much my, you know. And I'm constantly saying to my students that have other projects going on at the
Natalie: during university, and they have like side projects or things like that, where they're selling something where they're producing like crochet scarves or something. And I'm always like, How much are you charging like? What is your profit margin like? You need to be able to, you know, and you have to. You have to drill that in at such an early age, so that by the time they graduate this benefits the community, and there is a community, for
Natalie: there is a community for for design and and going forward. That this really does happen like this is the belief that I have. And I respect everyone that works with me that does the teachers the same thing and because we also teach adaptation. They teach product design. They teach
Natalie: pottery. It's.
Amanne: And there's also.
Natalie: Fine art painting. It's it's such a wonderful space to be in. And and everyone there is like super talented. And we all come together to kind of just so, there's a fine art degree. There's a design degree. And there's also an interior design degree within the same college. And so it's incredible. It's really like very blessed and lucky to have been able to do what I do there, and the reward that I get from
Natalie: doing it is is immense.
Amanne: Yeah, I mean, I think it's also an important reminder to people who purchase clothing, especially like things that are handmade and that are more intricate like, there's a lot that goes into pricing and especially, you know, we're talking, we talk about this these, obviously, a lot because of our podcast but you know, it's like going back to that and like what it actually costs for somebody to make it and then
Amanne: receive a profit. They can live off of, I think, is really really important. We've gotten too used to in society. We've gotten too used to the idea of buying too much at very low price points that
Amanne: is just not gonna hold up. And there's a difference in quality for sure. Can. Okay. I know that like the threes, is a part of, you know, fashion, but it's not everything you teach. But I am curious. The students that you have that do decide to incorporate the threes into their work like, how are they incorporating the threes into their work? How are they modernizing, contemporalizing the threes.
Natalie: I actually have a few right now that are working on collections that are inspired by there's always a few throughout the semester, and one of she actually really surprised me because she brought the samples like 2 days ago, and I was so impressed. So throughout the entire semester she had this idea of like working with Manacle, which is basically a connector embroidery between thobes. And so she did so much research on just the different types of Manacle and the different sizes and the colors and things like that. And
Natalie: she had other elements that she wanted to. And she has introduced into her design. So we're currently at basically design development, where they're getting their designs into come becoming into reality. And so I said, You know, if you want to do, Manajel. Obviously like she's doing so much. I said, you could work with a lady that can, can, you know, create the pieces for you, and then you can do the construction, everything for the pieces themselves.
Natalie: And so she came in with all these like stunning, stunning samples. But what she did was really smart where she played around with scale. And so she turned the tiny, tiny menage it into, like, you know, a 6 cm thick
Natalie: pieces where she would like basically drape them across the the body. And and it's it's just really beautiful, like
Natalie: the process that she went through. She did a lot at home. She did a lot of embroidery, and she did so many different things. But then, really, like like you were saying how she make it more contemporary. She just really played around with scale, but at the same time staying true to the act because it is Manacle. It is actually, you know.
Amanne: I'm here.
Natalie: And taking this idea of like how
Natalie: pieces of of the tube are connected, and then I mean, I would have to see the work to actually understand what I'm talking about. But it's like, basically.
Amanne: Yeah, yeah.
Natalie: Pieces of the garments are connected with these Manajel, and everything's like much larger scale. And just so beautiful like. It's something that's often overlooked in the thobe, like, you know, Manajel is such a minuscule part of the thobe, and for her to just like there's no Tatreez. There's just the Manajel on the pieces. And it's just really beautiful. And I just feel like again, something really interesting. And people are always going to be like, oh, like, what is that? What does it mean?
Amanne: But.
Natalie: It come from.
Natalie: And so yeah, great like, just, you know, wonderful and and there's been so many different, you know, people trying to do things like, you know, turning into print. Or I've had students. Just, you know, kind of just really doing, you know, playing around a lot with different, not just, but also like looking at the history of the thobe, the cuts of the thobe knowing that like, you know, doing research about like how the thobes from from different
Natalie: Parts of the country look different. The sleeves are different, the lengths are different, and then just focusing on shape as opposed to embroidery as well. Fa ya3ni, I feel like all of these aspects are. It's so important to be highlighted and to be for them to be able to understand and also like explore these in different in different
Natalie: ways. Because, like you said, like with fashion, we're constantly teaching like principles and elements of fashion, whether they're doing scale or repetition, or gradation, or emphasis on one side of the garment. It's introducing all of these things with or let's say, with some sort of Palestinian garment, and then, just, you know, really giving them that space to explore, I'm always saying to them, like
Natalie: for me. Yes, the the final outcome is super important, and what you do your collection on is important. But for me it's something that you have to be passionate about. I really let them choose the topics that they want to do, because I mean, I tell them from the beginning you're going to be working on this, the entire semester. It has to be something you're super passionate about.
Natalie: And so everyone kind of chooses different things, like some people choose, you know, just so many different things, like some things that I've never even heard of, like I have a student doing a collection on dark academia in Anime which I've never heard of. And so it's really you learn a lot that you teach them a lot, and it's such an interesting exchange, and I feel like there's never been a semester where there hasn't been a collection that was inspired by to trees. More specifically, because we do teach history of fashion and history of
Natalie: like. A lot of the lectures are based around that. And so I feel like a lot of the students when they have those lectures or when I give those lectures. It's kind of like a light bulb moment. And they're just
Natalie: yeah.
Natalie: You never knew this. And and the fact that this is what they're coming to university and philosophy and to learn for me is like
Natalie: very good thing, and a very, very blessed, you know, to be able to do as well.
Lina: So how do the rest of us take this curriculum?
Lina: Want to take it.
Natalie: I signed up.
Lina: Yeah, how do we sign up for this.
Natalie: I mean, I don't know if there's online online courses, I feel like they need to. I mean, we did. We did do online, obviously at the beginning of the war.
Natalie: And that was very difficult.
Natalie: very, very difficult. Just trying to teach this curriculum. You know, at a distance was very difficult, and then also teaching during everything that was going on.
Natalie: asking your students to do any kind of work.
Natalie: Relating to design.
Lina: Yeah.
Natalie: Very difficult. Yeah, very, very difficult. And then
Natalie: recommended so many students to drop the course just mentally they couldn't. And they're repeating with me now, which I'm really happy about, and they're happy about. And they're doing well.
Natalie: But definitely saw, and me myself had to overcome and and be present and be like, you know, a leader in that sense in in those situations. But
Natalie: yeah, I feel like it was. Yeah, I had people, you know, students coming and saying like, Oh, I want to do a collection inspired by
Natalie: I don't even wanna say, but yeah.
Amanne: Yeah.
Natalie: So
Natalie: very difficult time. But, Alhamdulillah, now that we're back in person and able to, even though it's sometimes we get days where you know, students aren't able to come in because of
Natalie: roadblocks and checkpoints, but at least we're trying to do the best with what we can and come in. And then also this semester. We had a lot of students that are, you know, behind on their tuition, because parents are just not making as much
Natalie: you know all of these things I feel like
Natalie: come into play when you're when you're working and and teaching here.
Lina: Absolutely no, absolutely
Lina: So, Natalie, what is next for your journey? I know designing is a little bit on. Hold! You're continuing to teach. Is there anything else kind of that you're thinking about right now?
Natalie: So right now, I'm actually a lot focused on my studio, which is my basically product design studio.
Natalie: Where I do. I don't know if you've seen we do a lot of stationary product design, which is what I was doing for a long time in Doha
Natalie: I worked with cotted museums there as merchandise designer, as I mentioned earlier. And then we did quite a lot of product that was inspired by, you know, like the Ottoman Empire, or like, you know, Persia, or like so many different different
Natalie: stages of history and and periods of history that were actually incredible. And so I feel like now, I really dive into
Natalie: nature of Palestine, and then Flora and fauna, and looking at all that, and then just really like having make make products inspired by all of that with everything's kind of on hold. Because I really want to like focus that onto the fashion. Whereas people are like coming to me to now, and they're like, Oh, why aren't you doing like notebooks with? And you know and I feel like
Natalie: I do want to save that, for, like the fashion side of things, and then for the studio, I'm really focusing on like Palestinian harvest Palestinian nature. You know, we do everything from like weekly planners to to do lists like shopping lists to notebooks and and this was also something I was very hesitant to release. I released in September of this year, with the start of the new Academic year
Natalie: and I felt that I really wanted to push something that was
Natalie: very light hearted, and remind people about the beauty of of what it means to be here and connect with the land. That was kind of the goal. And so with right now not so much kind of saving it for
Natalie: bigger and better things. Inshallah and very focused on the studio, working with a lot of different clients as well. Because we, we not only do we just produce product, we also work with a lot of clients on design projects. and it's really fun. Actually, it's been amazing, because I'm working with a lot of different Palestinian businesses, and local businesses as well.
Natalie: so it's a lot of fun making other people's
Natalie: dreams come to reality and actually
Natalie: product. Which I enjoy. I feel like
Natalie: I'm not that I get bored easily, but I like to continuously work with different people on different things. And so the studio kind of gives me that in in the moment.
Amanne: Yeah.
Natalie: I feel like I'm not able to
Natalie: share so much on the fashion side.
Amanne: well excited to see what you continue to bring to the world. And when the time is right, your next fashion collection, which I will be very, very excited, for and before we say goodbye we always like to ask what is a major life lesson that you have gained from these.
Natalie: Patience. Maybe I think I think patience
Natalie: like you touched on it a little bit earlier. But I feel like a lot of people forget how long it takes to to do Tatreez, and the
Natalie: how how like, not not just labor intensive. But you're you're doing something with your hands, and when you're doing something with your hands, you're showing love. And when something, when you say all handmade with love, it really does mean that when you're doing. And
Natalie: I feel like, yeah, definitely, just doing things slowly. And as they come and and really like giving things their true time and doing them beautifully, and how they should be. And you know, with patience. And
Natalie: I feel like definitely, I think I would have to say patience. Really, I think that's the the main thing. And and and I, I think a lot of women experience that when they're doing, you know, because, like
Natalie: you understand, the value of to trees. But you also understand how much time it takes to create something of that magnitude. And then you also understand why it costs so much and then you have a whole new appreciation, for you know all these women that have done it for so many years, and and then, when you look at like old tubes, and and people like Jill are repurposing tubes. And how important that is to recycle and
Natalie: You know, I say this to my students a lot as well. A lot of the time, like, you know, fast fashion is on its way out, and slow fashion is on its way in. And here in Palestine we've always been about slow fashion.
Natalie: So when they're like talking about oh, like, I want to use a recyclable material. And I want to do slow fashion. I'm like this is who we are. This is this is what we've been doing. So.
Amanne: How long.
Lina: It is.
Natalie: So. I feel like it's it's great that globally people are moving away from
Natalie: from that and appreciating these things. And also it gives designers, 1st of all, breathing space and a grace period where you're not continuously having to like turn things out just for the sake of turning things out. You have a little bit more time to
Natalie: produce something. That's a lot more like you, said Handmade. And and and just take time to appreciate the quality of the things that you're doing, the things that you're creating.
Lina: I love that. Yeah, I think I forget who told me this. But someone talked about how like the word sustainability didn't need to be a word for our ancestors, because they were like just by nature. That's who they were. They were sustainable. It was just part of their relationship with the land that they that they lived on Natalie. This was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us today. Please tell our listeners where they can follow you all of the places. So your personal, the studio, like, just share all the places.
Natalie: So I'm for fashion. We're on at Natalie Tahhan, official and for the studio we're @Ntstudi0 with a 0 and my website is www.Natalietahhan.com. So that's where you guys can connect with us. Through Instagram, the website, or, Yeah.
Lina: Amazing. Thank you so much, Natalie.
Natalie: Thank you. Guys, honestly.
Amanne: Yeah.
Natalie: We're like very honored to be here and.
Amanne: That was such a fun conversation. I think we could have continued talking for far too long. We'll see. We might have to edit it into 2 episodes. We'll see, we'll see. But you know, I personally love this idea of
Amanne: innovation with, and you know that these not being stagnant and continuing to evolve. So I remember seeing Natalie's work a number of years ago for the 1st time, and just like at the time she was really, you know. Now there's like people have played around with more, which is great to see. But she was probably one of the 1st people I saw who took this like more modern approach by like
Amanne: doing this more printed pattern versus like a hand stitch pattern. And I think, for all the reasons she described right like, from a cost perspective, to make it more accessible from a just construction perspective. All these different reasons why she did what she did. It was really cool to see that
Amanne: and you know I'm excited to see what she has in store next, and also like her students, too, like, you know, she she mentioned that pretty much every semester. There are students that incorporate the threes into their work.
Amanne: So I just love the fact that there are Palestinian designers who are continuing to innovate and keep the 3 alive in new ways.
Lina: So true, and I'm so obsessed with her curriculum on, and how it is something that they're now just embedding as part of the degree which is incredible because it is fashion history. It's part of that fabric, if you will, but such a pleasure, we'll definitely be bringing Natalie back. So don't worry, listeners. We'll have more of Natalie in the future. I have a feeling, but for now. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Tatreez. Talk
Lina: again. We want to hear about your Tatreez journeys. Please please share your stories with us at Tatreeztalk@gmail.com, and we might just have you on an upcoming episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. On your favorite listening platform and be sure to leave a five-star review. You can follow me @linasthobe, Amanne at @minamanne, and of course, the podcast @tatreeztalk. We will talk to you soon.
